Looking for opinions.

[ecoflame]

So I spun a rod bearing in my BE5 and I'm looking at a JDM front clip for the swap. Most the ones I'm seeing on eBay are GC8 or GDB (sorry if those aren't the right model numbers) I'd prefer the GDB just because they're newer. Is there a huge difference? If this is a redundant post I apologize, but I searched and didn't find a legitimate answer for question.

[harrymaneuvers]

What motor are you looking for? Are you going to go turbo or just looking for a NA JDM engine to put in?

[chuckthefuk]

Hello 'ecoflame' your legacy chassis is a BE9 which came with the SOHC EJ251. possibly EJ252 or EJ253.

The BE5 came with the 2.0L engine..

So to answer your question.

Gen 1 impreza - MY92-00 - GM/GC/GF came with OBD1 WRX/STI EJ20G EJ20K / STI EJ207 single turbo (other variations not listed)
---> EEPROM flash ability = NO
Gen 2 impreza - MY01-07 - GD/GG came with OBD2 WRX EJ205 / STi EJ207 single turbo
---> EEPROM flash ability = YES

STI MY01-02 - AVCS - (Internet refers to this as a Version 7)
STI MY03-04 - AVCS - twin scroll turbo(Internet refers to this as a Version 8)
STI MY05-06 - AVCS - twin scroll turbo w/ ECU immobilizer (Internet refers to this as a Version 9)

STI Version(s) #'s started at 2 stopped at 6 .. Used only on the gen 1 impreza.
AVCS = Active valve control system (similar to Variable Valve Timing = VVT)
Twin Scroll Turbo = also know as dual vane turbos. Turbo manifold and up-pipe have 2 separate paths instead of going into 1 collector.

OBDI engine swaps are very common but are difficult to keep emissions regulations in check. Most will use a stand alone EMS (engine management system) to allow tuning.

OBDII engine swaps are standard practice.. Newer technology and ECU flash via OBDII data port. Easier to find parts for.

Info Overload? :-D

-Chuck

[ecoflame]

harrymaneuvers - Turbo; No if's, and's, or but's about it. Lol. As for the motor chuckthefuk just gave me the info I need to answer that question. GD or GG EJ207. I think?.....

chuckthefuk - With the exception of the OBD info that was perfect! Thank you so much man. Based off what you told me I was going to end up ordering the wrong front clip. Also thanks for the clarification on my chassis code. I knew it was a BE, but why I added the 5 is beyond me. :/

[ecoflame]

What's yalls opinion of putting in a EZ30?

[chuckthefuk]

Smaller then the EG33..
Makes more power.
Requires a complete harness, ecu, ignition cylinder, cluster to fire it up OR a standalone.

Bolts right up to any subaru transmission.

Amazing motor.. not really worth the hassle unless your into being unique.

Some guys have these running with standalone engine management systems and single or twin turbo setups.

-Chuck

[Yamazaki]

Is he talking about an EZ30D or EZ30R? Either way, I would have to refer to this post made by keltik: viewtopic.php?p=309071#p309071

[ScaryFatKidGT]

Smaller then the EG33..
Makes more power.
Requires a complete harness, ecu, ignition cylinder, cluster to fire it up OR a standalone.

Bolts right up to any subaru transmission.

Amazing motor.. not really worth the hassle unless your into being unique.

Some guys have these running with standalone engine management systems and single or twin turbo setups.

-Chuck

How much do these weigh compared to a EJ257 (or any tubro really) with snail and IC and all that jazz?

EZ30D=BE and EZ30R=2008ish-2011? Both auto only right?

[ecoflame]

I found an '02 WRX EJ20 for 2k with ECU and harness, but no tmic. It has 129k on it. Is this a good deal or should I keep looking?

[ScaryFatKidGT]

I found an '02 WRX EJ20 for 2k with ECU and harness, but no tmic. It has 129k on it. Is this a good deal or should I keep looking?

If it works? Then you can just upgrade to an STi TMIC.

[ecoflame]

Ok so here's the finale battle plan;
1. I am keeping her N/A. She's going to be my DD.
2. I want to rebuild the motor I have.
3. I want to build it better than stock.
4. I want to keep all "upgrades" within the stock ECU parameters.

I have done some basic research bouncing around forums, and this is where I'm at parts wise. Of course this is speculative, and I welcome additional information or opinions. BUT PLEASE KEEP IN MIND MY 4 OBJECTIVES ABOVE.

STI oil pump or after market oil pump (I forget the name, I have it written down somewhere). Anything bigger then 7mm.
Port the oil pick up lines for smoother flow.
Eagle piston rods (they'll be needed down the road)
Pistons I'm not sure on, hoping for insight from yall.
'04-'06 EJ257/255 head gasket -p/n 11044AA642
Port and polish heads, intake and header to match.
Delta cams - stage 2 regrinds?
Valve train leave alone?
New valves and stem seals
'05 RS engine mounts, GrPN trans mount, urethane filled differential mounts. This will ease the bucking when letting off the throttle? Yes?
Hypersingle clutch with spring hub and lighter flywheel
Oh and light weight pulleys.

So advice? Opinions?

[chuckthefuk]

I am not exactly sure what your overal goal here is. When #1 says N/A but you list "eagle pistons (they'll be needed down the road)

if your trying to build a N/A bulletproof motor and then plan on converting it down the road.. this just bad logic.

Also why the 05' RS engine mount? Why not the group N.. and no it wont fix the bucking..

Sorry to say that #4 is not possible.. Adding a Stage 2 Cam grind will throw the ECU a curve ball.. This is why we tend to use piggy backs to adjust air/fuel and timing since your cam regrinds will have different lobes allowing for different valve train variables.

You seem to have done lots of research for a 7 Post count member which I commend you doing however you still have a long ways to go.

-Chuck

[ecoflame]

After a year or two and I have my Honda build done I want to take a crack at supercharging her (5-10psi). So that's where the eagles come in to play, they're just an option I'm playing with. I have no issues with using OEM rods.

One build I read up on, the guy said that combo negated the bucking. I'm just being hopeful. If its probably a pointless endeavor I'll skip it. That's why I'm asking for yalls insight.

So cam upgrades is basically pointless? Maybe a lower regrind/ stage?

I'm not totally new to this kinda stuff, and I've been bitched at before for "not doing my research" lol.

Where else/ what else should I look up?

[chuckthefuk]

I don't want to be negative in anyway since SLi does not hate nor do we put people down but that list of items + labour even if ur doing it yourself is a lot of effort for very little pay off.

Porting helps top end and hurts low end. This is not a useful mod for N/A unless your doing a high-compressing build with a raised red line and stiffer valve train.

If your looking for reliability just send her off to get rebuilt, upgrade the oil system as you stated above and upgrade the head gasket to current revision. You don't need forged internals to beat on a 165 hp @ 6000 rpms..

200 AWHP is possible but your wallet will hate you.

Lots of people on SLi have asked these questions and gone down this path only to give up / loose interest / lack of funds / or headaches .

-Chuck

[ecoflame]

The payoff is driver seat enthusiasm. Plus I like being unique. I'll do all the work myself that I can, its rewarding.

I have funds, limitless interest, and plenty of ibuprofen. Lol.
I'm not expecting 200hp at the wheel. I just want to squeeze all I can out of the stock motor and ECU. But from the general Outlook I'm hoping for too much I guess.

[pleaidestar]

Suspension mod like a lower and stiffer stances and sway bars will correct the wasted movement from the power of the car.

You mentioned a pulley kit as well, thats a good one with lightweight fly wheel cuts out rotational weight from the crank.

[ecoflame]

I didn't mention the suspension cause that's a give in, I'm gonna run h&r springs and probably kyb shocks. Unless you have a better recommendation...

I've seen a couple kits for the pulleys, some name branded, some "knock off" is there any particular brand I should look in to?

With the flywheel I'm torn between shaving down the stock one or buying aftermarket. Any opinion?

[pleaidestar]

I wouldnt do anything at all with the stock flywheel..except toss that 32 lb pos in the garbage. if you try to modify that thing more than likely you will take it out of balance, even if you take it to a machine shop.


The kyb gr2 is tried and true with those springs, i put some on my old civic with tein springs and they lasted a very long time...kinda stiff but my car weighed little over two thousand lbs. I would check into sti packages for your car, i think you will need tophats/springlands for those applications, but there is alot more support for the wrx and sti, unless you want to take a risk on some racelands...i have seen a few guys here say they fail...

If you can find the gfb 3 piece pulley kit, would be the best but they are no longer manufacturing them...im sure somebody out there might still have them on their shelves. The perrin pulley is a good one i hear, but i have not tried one out. i had a fidanza lightweight flywheel on my civic as well, it was an expensive part at 670 bills but well worth it. All the clutch did was grab.

[ecoflame]

Cool thanks man, I appreciate your input.

[Huffer]

Ok so here's the finale battle plan;
1. I am keeping her N/A. She's going to be my DD.
2. I want to rebuild the motor I have.
3. I want to build it better than stock.
4. I want to keep all "upgrades" within the stock ECU parameters.

So advice? Opinions?

Anytime you crack the motor and change the internals your reliability will go down. There's a reason the FHI engineers get paid moola and use extremely high tech tolerance clearing machines. They're building for reliability across a broad cross section of drivers, altitudes and gasoline grades.

Cheap, fast, reliable. You can only pick TWO.

[ecoflame]

Fast-ish, and reliable was my goal. I never intend to use sub-par parts, only quality.

I've abandoned hope for this motor to be worthwhile, just about everybody has hated on, or dismissed my idea. Between this forum and another I've had little too no support for my aspiration, so I'm just gonna replace the bearing and call it done. Later down the road I'll swap a different motor in to it and go from there.

Sucks to admit defeat, but oh well life goes on.

[lord flashheart]

i built a 2.5 sohc for a guy, and all he did was 12.5:1 wiseco pistons, and a set of delta cams, other than that it was mostly stock, and he made 144WHP (when he got it tuned i believe he made around 155WHP). which... if you are staying N/A thats pretty much the limit before it would be cheaper/easier to go forced induction. if you think for a second you are going to make turbo power from a 2.5 N/A your mentally challenged.
even with the EG33, N/A the limit is roughly 290CHP. turbo 2.5 is perfectly happy and (when done properly)reasonably reliable at 350whp.

(to put it in perspective)
EJ251 about 105whp
EJ205 about 165WHP
EJ255 about 200WHP
EJ257 about 225WHP.

so when i say the engine made 144whp, thats not bad at all considering..

honestly if your looking for fast-ish and reliable way to go.. the hands down best way to go is...
12.5:1 pistons, with cams, and headers
.
any and i do mean ANY time you put an engine that wasnt intended for that car, you will be taking a hit on reliablity.
regardless of how mechanically sound the engine itself is. you will run into stupid shit like the cam sensor picking up electro-static noise from the chassis of the car and loosing trigger sync because the ecu wasnt mounted properly (and yes i have seen that exact senario)
we are re-wiring a entire STi-to-BD swap because the car has so many electrical issues. the car has been in and out with tunning problems, wiring problems, mechanical problems etc.

i dont mean to dump a bunch of horror stories on ya but i try to make people aware of what can and does happen.

also all swaps take alot of time. there is a member, he said he was going to swap his car for like 3000 and have it done in like 2 months. i told him he was going to spend over double his budget, and it wouldnt be done in a year.
i think its now been 14 months, and has been sent to a shop to be finish.

my point is, swaps are best for project cars, not dds.

i want to thank my 1997 toyota 4runner for hauling my ass around when my legacy sits around waiting on parts/time/money/motivation.

[Huffer]

Fast-ish, and reliable was my goal. I never intend to use sub-par parts, only quality.

I've abandoned hope for this motor to be worthwhile, just about everybody has hated on, or dismissed my idea. Between this forum and another I've had little too no support for my aspiration, so I'm just gonna replace the bearing and call it done. Later down the road I'll swap a different motor in to it and go from there.

Sucks to admit defeat, but oh well life goes on.

Sorry to hear. I fully support the idea of building a motor... but to think you can build a "bulletproof" motor that reliably outperforms a stock engine is not realistic. If you have time and money you can certainly build a good engine and make it go quick. Most people don't, or don't want to dump that kind of money into a chassis that is 6-10 years old. Some of us are still playing with chassis' that are 14-18 years old. And still trying to make an NA (subaru) block go fast.

Quitting just because other people poo-poo your idea isn't right. Quitting because it makes more sense in the long run is. Don't blame others for your lack of motivation, there's no brownie points or "rep" given out here unless you contribute to the community. Building a car, having fun, crying over it, finishing it, selling it, chatting to others about it, posting pictures of it, are all examples of being part of this community. No-one notices (for long) the guys who show up with a 500whp ride, post some pics and disappear. The most talked about rides on this board are the beat up, dented, polished, rebuilt, repainted, grassroots, bruised knuckles ones. We honor sweat and tears around here.

I hope you'll stick around and have some fun with the car... your plans are not unrealistic but you have to understand you can't have everything on your list without a significant amount of money or time or amazing skill. Most of us have to compromise somewhere.

[pleaidestar]

Man, your vehicle, whether its a project or dd WILL try break your heart and try your patience every chance it gets. All of my projects have at one point or another, in a perfect world you would buy your parts, install tune and enjoy..never works out that way though. If you believe in what your trying to do it will come together for you but you cant half ass it or run around moaning and telling yourself the world is against you. Subarus are fickle and a pain in balls sometimes but when you get it right it will be your best and most reliable friend

[lord flashheart]

I was actually incouraging you to build the motor you got. Ive built more subaru engines than i care to count, and the 12 to 1 always sticks out in my mind cause it was fun and reliable.

[ecoflame]

Lord flashheart - I never expected forced induction performance from the N/A motor. Lol.

I'm not a noob when it comes to motor swaps, in my '92 accord I have a '93~ JDM f22b DOHC with internal and external mods. The motor swap took about 3 days working on roughly 8 hours intervals, when I started upgrading to performance parts it was outta commission for close to 6 months. So I understand there's time involved, and to this day I'm still F'in with certain "problems" here and there. My CB7 is my project car, for now.

I do thank you for your input on the Pistons and cams.

Huffer - At no point did I say I wanted it to be "bulletproof," with me there is no such thing as bulletproof. Haha. See I don't care how old the car is, its how I feel while behind the wheel. I freaking love the Legacy so I have no reservations about putting time or money in to her.

I don't know Subaru's yet, I only know Honda. That's why I come to these forums to learn and ask the questions. My motivation is there, I just need input from others who do know Subaru and are willing to do the back and forth. So far the most common response is "its a waste of time and money." Ok for them it may be a waste of time and money, but not for me. How can I contribute when what I'm trying to contribute is being dismissed? How can I shed sweat and tears, when I can barley even get a legitimate response to my inquiries?

Oh I'm not going anywhere. Of the three forums I've joined this is by far the most friendly, and the one I get the most responses from.



pleaidestar - I do believe in what I do. I just need advice till I know enough not to ask.
The world is against me, but that's why I fight for my right to party!

Please don't take any of the above negatively, its all with love.

[chuckthefuk]

I've abandoned hope for this motor to be worthwhile, just about everybody has hated on, or dismissed my idea. Between this forum and another I've had little too no support for my aspiration,

Sucks to admit defeat, but oh well life goes on.

Don't say that. Everyone has their own way of looking at mods.

Most people including myself do not see N/A builds as a good return for the investment but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.

Some people enjoy the challenge of dealing with the trials and tribulations of building a motor. These people also don't mind downtime and having no disposable income.

I enjoy my peppy worn out EJ22E that puts down 90 AWHP @ 430,000 km more then my EJ25D GT's .. Its all about perspective.. Having a mild engine build that makes a bit more power or builds the revs faster is just as much fun for some and yet others enjoy fire breathing track projects.

..

Too each their own.
.

The point of what most of us are trying to say is if you are going to take on a project like this expect (insert issue here) will happen or you will only achieve (insert number here)

Like I said at the top and Lord Flashheart has explained. Hi-compression builds are the way to go if you want the most out of the motor.

-Chuck

[pleaidestar]

Thats the attitude big guy...im in the same boat as you. This is my first subaru and its easy to get frustrated trying to come up with a plan, different animals come with different ways to tame them. The month that i have been on this forum have reconciled my issues with humanity in alot of ways...s-li is a very decent community with helpful people that have the same primary love for what they do. Time to stop blubbering, somebody slap me please.

[ecoflame]

I can drive to El Paso and give you a lil love tap. Haha. If you're ever down around Austin hit me up, and vise versa if I'm in El Paso.

[pleaidestar]

For sure man, my car going to be running, i need to go up to denton to see a boy up there in a few months probably...you live up near schertz right?