Broken brake line... AND HOW TO FIX IT !!

[d1giPhux]

My luck this week is just terrible. I now have a broken hard brake line

This line is on the passengers side, right behind the rear wheel area.







Does anyone know WHERE this line goes to? Looks like its connected to some weird flexible hoses that route around the back of the car somewhere.. but I cant really tell WHERE they are going to.

I'm going to need to run some new lines, but I'm not really sure where to start with this. Looks like the line comes in from under the rear seat, and then drops down, then around the car.

Just wondering if anyone has done this before, and what the best way to route the lines would be.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. I feel like my luck is just not good this week.

[d1giPhux]

Looks like the part that is leaking goes INTO the car.

The other side of that double connector appears to go around the gas tank and above the frame somewhere I cant see.

Here is a picture from opposed forces. The connector where all the lines go into is #17 on the picture below:



So I'm guessing I need to replace from the adapter back to wherever the line is running to. Oh man.. what a hassle. Does anyone have any tips on doing this, or where the line itself runs before ripping my entire interior apart.

[mlitz]

there is no reason for it to go inside... don't pull your interior apart. give me a min to look at the pictures and maybe get out of bed and go look my car

EDIT: are you sure it is a brake line and not a fuel line?

[d1giPhux]

Its a brake line.. brake goes to the floor when pressed. The line runs under the rear seat.. and then through a grommet that comes out under the car. Then it attaches into the fitting #17 that all the other lines attach to.

Luckily it appears to have broken on the side that comes from the inside of the car, and not on the side that goes around the gas tank and frame and shit.

I actually found a video of a guy who had the same problem as me:



That video might give you a better view of what is going on with my car as well.

[mlitz]

well the seat cushion is really easy to pull... is that where you think it is?

[d1giPhux]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure these lines come from the front of the car > down the rocker panel > under the rear seat and then out underneath the car.

Guess I should get out there and just start pulling the interior apart. Second time this week!

Not sure what I'm going to do about this. Maybe just pull the old line and then have to flare some new lines? I'm not really sure where these lines go to in order to get into the engine bay.. but guess I'm about to find out!

[mlitz]

just slowly trace the lines, mark them with some tape so you know witch ones go where. then yes you will need to cut them and flare new lines and splice them in. if you lived near me I would come and help...

[d1giPhux]

Dang.. too bad I'm on the opposite coast! Haha.

Okay, so here is what I've done so far. Removed rear seat, rear seat pad, and rear passenger door sill.

Looks like the brake line is going to run up the passenger rocker panel area..

How can I spline lines in? I thought I would have to just replace the entire line all the way from the front of the car?

If i was to splice a line in.. wouldnt I have to flare the end of the line where I cut it, then use a union, and then use another line connected to the union? I'm not sure how that would work. Any more info you could give me would be greatly appreciated.

Here is a view of the line going through the grommet under the rear seat:

[Huffer]

If the line broke inside the car, wouldn't there be brake fluid residue there?

[d1giPhux]

Huffer: No.. it broke right where it hangs down under the car. See pictures #1 and #2. It comes out from a grommet and makes a weird bend. Looks like its broken somewhere near the bend. Apparently as far as i've read this is a common spot for them breaking.


Here is a picture of the lines coming up from under the car REAR and going to front:





Here is a picture of the lines running up the passenger side FRONT of the car (I removed seat, all plastic, etc):




Here is a picture of where the lines connect in engine bay (what the heck is it connected to??) :

[Huffer]

Ok, so looks like all you'll need to do is cut the brake line about 2" from the bend, install a join, install a new line and bend that through to the brake and flare the fitting.

[d1giPhux]

So i shouldnt bother replacing the entire line? I mean, either way I'm going to have to buy line and crap.

Might be easier to just replace the entire line rather than trying to flare proper lines while on the car right? Not sure.. hmm. I'm going to disconnect the line from under the car now.

[Huffer]

It's not necessary to buy all new line. The break is right where that join is, which is probably a 90deg bend, in what, a 12 year old car?
Your lines inside the car and in the engine bay look perfectly fine, and unless your car was submerged won't have any rust on them whatsoever.

Think about how much you'll have to do to replace the entire line. That's easily 10ft of tube work.

[d1giPhux]

I'm not sure how I would do that though?? If someone could explain that would help. I just cant visualize it.

Also, anyone have any tips on getting the line disconnected? Seems like the nut or whatever going into the junction is just so rusted, its rounded off. Maybe cut the line and use a socket? If that doesnt work.. any other ideas? Looks like its 10mm flare nut, but i bought one, and it just seems too round now to get undone.

[Huffer]

Here's a good starter for you:
http://www.stu-offroad.com/suspension/f ... l/ft-1.htm

Basically, you're going to cut the pipe after the break, inside the car. Then you're going to put a fitting over that line, then flare that out so the fitting doesn't come out. Then you take your replacement line, measure up what you need, slip on the fitting, flare it and that will connect to the line in the car. The take the other end, put the fitting on, flare that and that will connect to your flexible brake line on the rear of the car. Make sure you tighten the fittings down properly, but don't overtighten.

[Dead91silvia]

You know whats sad..... I have scrapped 2 sets of those in the last 6 months...

You can splice it like Huffer said, or you could study it and see how much work it is to change the whole thing and how much a new one is from Subaru. It might be some what reasonable for a new one.

[d1giPhux]

VIDEO OF HOW LINES ARE ROUTED: http://tinyurl.com/subarubrakelines

Update:

So I had to cut the line, and then use butane pen torch + 6 point socket to get the brake line fitting out of the 4 way connector.

Here is my dilemma:

Should I replace the entire line, or should I just flare the line inside of the car, and then add a union and call it a day?

It would be easier to just add the union and such, but it worried me for a couple reasons. First being that if I cut the line inside of the car, brake fluid is going to run inside of the car and make a huge mess. Second reason I may not want to do that is.. because if it ever DOES leak again in the future, its going to leak under the rear seat. That would also be a huge mess.

If i replace the entire line, its just going to be a giant pain in the ass to remove. I will need to buy a lot of brake line, and i will also need to pull the grommet from the front of the car, and re-route the lines all down the rocker panel and such. There is about 8 bends I would have to make as well. Its almost like id want to replace both lines if i did it that way.. as the other line looks equally rusty under the car. It really wouldnt be THAT much work however. I just need to figure out if I would bend the lines BEFORE installing them, or after. I'm not sure how subaru would do it.

The price from subaru for each line is around $90.

Any ideas??

[d1giPhux]

I took a better look at the brake line running under the seat, and it looks like i COULD create a decent flare on the existing line while its on the car. So now my concern is how to drain the fluid out so that it wont be leaking everywhere while i do this. Also, it would be great to block the line off while I bend the new line as well.

Any suggestions? Brake fluid is nasty stuff and I DO NOT want it to get everywhere if I use this method.

Thanks!

[02_Legacy]

Put a rag around the line then cut the brake line with side cutters. Then bend the line up and you should be able to do it with out too much fluid loss. Then take your line cutter and make your square cut and flare the line. Then run your new line, start inside the car and push it through the grommet and then go under the car and route it as necessary. I would go right to where it attaches to the flex hose and bypass that 4 way connector all together. Connect it to the flex hose then use your union to make the connection inside the car. As long as you get the union nice and tight and you have good flares it will never leak there so no worries about that.
There really is no reason to rerun the whole line as the only place it is rusted is under the car. If you are not confident enough you should bring it to a shop they should be able to do a repair for under $90 I would think.

If you do decide to replace the whole thing, note that these are A/C lines you circled below. The brake lines will end at the ABS unit.

[img]http://www.designlabx.com/subaru/brakes/brake_line/lines_engine_bay.jpg[/img]

[d1giPhux]

Really? Those are the AC lines? How could that be? The lines that run along the floor in the car go directly out to that location. Weird.. maybe I'll have to take another look. Glad I didn't disconnect anything.

[02_Legacy]

on a second look they may not be A/C lines (was looking at the picture on my little phone screen), but the brake lines should go to the ABS unit. I'm curious about it now too?
Maybe try following the lines the other way, start at the abs unit.

[d1giPhux]

So looks like the lines in the front go to what is called the 'proportioning valve'. Its part of the ABS system. Here a picture below from the FSM compared to the picture I took:





Now I just need to decide whether I want to bother with flaring a line, or just remove the entire line and get 2 new pieces from the store pre-flared. I've never flared lines before, and it seems like a huge hassle to get it done correctly while the line is ON the car.

My best bet would be to do the following if I was going to try that route:

1. Cut the line using a hack saw or dremel as to not 'harden the metal'.
2. File the end of brake line off flat. Deburr inside of line with utility knife.
3. Heat end of line till its red, and then let it AIR cool. IF possible.
4. Use cheap autozone brake flaring tool and make a double flare.

Seems all easy and such, except that it might be a real pain while the line is ON the car. Then, if it does leak.. its gonna go all over my interior.

Well.. thats where I'm at so far. Now to figure out whether I wanna try and create flares, or what to do so i can get this done.

Thanks!

[d1giPhux]

Well.. looks like this job is just going to get a hell of a lot harder. I'm trying to remove the lines from under the dash so that I can just replace the entire line. Only problem is.. they go up under the dash area, and im trying to figure out WHAT i need to remove in order to get them out. Here are some pictures of what I'm looking at (lines are marked with red arrows):





It also appears I need to remove both #1, and #2 from the picture below. Looks like the ECU plate, and then the rubber mat underneath it??



As you can see, the lines run under the rug and up under the dash area. I removed all the wiring harnesses and unplugged them. I removed all the stuff holding the carpet.. but they STILL run under some black mat, and seems like I would need to remove the blower motor in order to get them out? Anyone know what I need to do?? Not sure if that circular thing IS the blower motor, but if it is.. it looks like it might be in the way. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated as I'm at least trying to get the lines out today so I can finish this shit! PAIN IN THE ASS!

[d1giPhux]

I had to do the following:

-Remove CENTER CONSOLE
-Roll carpet up further.

Now the ECU plate is exposed. I'm assuming I will have to remove it in order to remove the black rubber mat that is under it which is also covering the lines going up into the dash area. Once I get that done.. I'm not sure what the heck i'll find. Hoping I wont have to remove the dash or anything retarded like that. In which case.. I will give up.

Hoping someone here has done this before and can give me some tips on what I'll need to remove. Looks like the lines run under that black mat, then up near the heater box area. UGH!

Here is a picture of what I'm looking at now:



In the picture below #1 is the ECU plate I think I will have to remove in order to remove #2 which is a rubber mat that covers the lines up in the top right hand corner.

[Dead91silvia]

I just took a look at my BD. I would say at minimum, you need to pull the ECU plate and pull your firewall insulation out of the way.

REMEMBER TO HAVE THE BATTERY UNHOOKED WHEN PLUGGING AIRBAG BACK IN! (yellow plug with Yellow loom)

I'm not really sure how far you NEED to go to get them completely out, but you might need to take the fan box out. That is a PITA to do. If it comes down to removing the dash, look in my Heater core DIY, shows most of what needs to be done to pull the dash.

But yeah...
1. remover ECU plate
2. firewall insulation
3. glove box (gives more work room)
4. (possible) heater fan box

This might be a case where splicing might not be a bad idea. I'm still a nut about having my car 100% so I would do the complete line, even if I had to do the dash, but thats me.

[Dead91silvia]

The more I look at it, you should only need to pull the ECU plate and insulation... Your that far might as well do it and see.

[d1giPhux]

Yeah, I'm really hoping I dont need to remove the heater fan box. That would entirely SUCK. Its looking like I might have to. I'm going to go pull the ECU cover and see if I can get to the firewall insulation. This is turning into a nightmare and not much fun!

Do you have a link to your heaterbox DIY? God.. that would totally suck if I had to remove the dash. Not looking forward to what I'm about to find out.

[Dead91silvia]

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=23882

The GOOD thing is that it would only be the fan box that will need to be removed and you wouldnt need the complete dash out, just lose.

[d1giPhux]

Pulled the ECU plate:



That gave me enough room to bend the firewall insulation back. Still cant see the top of the line. Looks like its going behind the heater box or something. Here a picture of the nut that is attaching to the 'heater box' or whatever it is thats in the way:





Whatever piece of plastic that nut is attached to seems to be in the way. It looks like it MAY be the last thing I need to pull. But.. how the hell do I pull it, and what IS it? Looks like its either part of the dash, or part of the heater box??

[Dead91silvia]

This is what it looks like with the dash off...