Lord Flash's 05 Legacy GT (A new project?)

[lord flashheart]

So as i mentioned the other day, I bought my newest project. it was an impulse buy, near the checkout counter.
2005 Legacy 2.5 GT in pearl blue. the owner was asking $2,000 but I talked him to $1500. its a premium edition and in decent shape. He said he couldn't get it to idle and that he thought that the car had low compression on one side. so I shelled out the moola, and rented a trailer I forgot the ball though (those bastards at Uhual made me buy a hitch.) Then I went to the junk yard and pulled an EJ255 from the wrecking yard. I'm not sure how good this one is, but I figured I should be able to make a running engine between the two.
I got it home, and yes the timing is WAY off. all 16 valves are most likely bent. There was also a very bizaar buzzing coming from under the intake. The only thing I could think that would make a buzzing noise in that area would be the throttle body. i plugged my trusty scanner into the OBD port and got a TPS code, a MAF sensor and a air temp sensor code. presumably the cause of the buzzing and no idle. the junk yard EJ255 came with a throttle body, tomorrow I will snag a MAF.

Im not really sure if I am going to fix and sell, or mod and drive... it's kind of nice being able to actually find parts for your project car

[xrayspecs]

thats not a bad deal at all! should keep it and drive it!

[mike-tracy]

Looks really nice. If I didn't have an RSTI, I would definitely build one of those up.

[lord flashheart]

thanks guys. Yea im not crazy about the color. i would be pretty pumped if it was white or black. I am envisioning some lowering springs, 18" wheels, bigger turbo, FMIC, and a tune..... but..First things first, let's get it running!

[Alucard]

First things first, let's get it running!

Hell yeah! You're like me. I buy 'em as cheap as I can get them and put the work in to make them mean machines.

[lord flashheart]

^Yea i was actually thinking about that the other day while I was looking through your posts.

Anywho. Had about an hour to tinker with her before I went to the gym so I took the hood off, and I have about 80% of the top-side stuff done to get the engine out. Then I have to get under the sombitch and work on it. I'm not quite doing it caveman style (outside on the ground) but almost. no power tools, no special tools, no lift, no heater. Shit sucks bruh.

speaking of cavemen, at some point I believe a neanderthal serviced this thing, because it had a bunch of stripped bolts. FML. Look at this starter bolt. that's just ridiculous. one of the bolts for the turbo/intercooler flange bolts was also stripped out and they put a nut on the underside of it too.
I also added a pic of the Subaru I pulled the replacement engine from.

Heres a additional picture. just a few little things and the intake will come off/

[lord flashheart]

Well got the intake off. The heads were recently rebuilt, but I'm assuming that when the guy F-ed up the timing is when the valve guide got broken off..
I also what to take a brief moment to bitch and moan about the doofus who worked on this car. All these bolts are stripped and/or rounded off. and then there's this shiz (see picture) the guy like zip-tied clips together... FML.
Anyway I could use some input.
The engine I snagged from the junkyard appears to have a little bit of metal in the oil. I don't trust putting it in the car. so I have a couple options I am considering.

Option one: pull the heads with bent valves, have a machine shop replace the valves and set valve lash, skipping the other parts of a head rebuild.
Option two: Pull the heads with the metal and clean them really well, slap them on the block that came out, and cross my fingers.

Thoughts?

[lord flashheart]

Okay so here's what i got yesterday:
Helicoils to repair the threads on about 7 bolt holes
Bolts to replace missing/damaged bolts(including 4 bell housing bolts)
new cam gear bolts (they were rounded and required me to drill them out)
new base-coat paint for the hood and bumper
the tow hook cover thing on the front bumper
new steering wheel (the one on the car is pretty worn)
a couple new electrical connectors to replace the ones broken by the previous owner
A couple coil packs to replace ones with broken connector clips
Mass air flow sensor
couple other bits and pieces I cant think of at the moment

I am becoming convinced that there are other problems with these heads. for the first time in my life I had to use a hammer to get a intake cam gear off. and when i took the timing off i couldn't spin the cam by hand. normally they spin pretty freely between the lobes. I am thinking the previous owner, worried about oil leaks, slathered on RTV silicone on the front cam cap and it squeezed into the journal. I think this is why the timing jumped. I haven't pulled it off, i am still drilling out stripped bolts, but when i do that's what i am betting i find.
Pics to come.

[lord flashheart]

Well i found the root of all the problems, and its pretty bad, worse than I was expecting.
Originally I thought that the doofus mechanic set the timing wrong and bent the valves. but what really happened is he put the cam caps on backwards on the #4 cylinder, and mixed up the intake and exhaust cam caps on the #3 cylinder. I think these heads are completely toast.

A tip for any of the non-members browsing the site looking to do their own mechanic work: Be diligent and patient. Try to put things together exactly the way they came apart. Take your time, be careful. Fix things right, I promise there is no problem you face that someone else hasn't already solved. Meaning, there is probably a trick, or a special tool or part that will solve your problem if you take the time to do it right... and for godsake PUT THE CAM CAPS ON THE EXACT WAY THEY CAME OFF!!

Anyway.

The previous owner put the cam caps on backwards and mixed up, so the cam was seizing up in the journal and chewed the shit out of them. I think this is why the timing jumped and bent all the valves. There was so much friction the camshaft alignment dowel broke off in the gear. It also probably sent metal debris through the rest of the engine the oil had a metallic shade to it, so i am tearing the shortblock down. I am confident that i can polish the crank and put fresh bearings in it. (I also have a set of Manly forged pistons i was thinking of putting in, but i told a buddy that we would put them in his car if his ringlands are busted when we take his engine apart. So I'm really hoping his ringlands are good so i can pop them in Scooby (2)) I am much less confident in the heads being usable. The machine shop i worked at didn't have a line hone, and we usually just advised customers to purchase new heads, so i actually don't know how much a line bore on heads cost. I can't imagine its too insane...$100-$200?

[mike-tracy]

I heard line bores are spendy.

Sorry if I missed it, what about the heads from the junkyard motor you pulled?

[lord flashheart]

I'm glad you stopped by my thread because I wanted your thoughts on all of this.
mind you the #1/3 head looks okay to run, it's the #2-4 head that needs the line bore.
The salvage yard heads are hypothetically good, but I suspect that engine has rod-bearing issues, since the cam journals are slightly scored/scarred, and there are sparklies in the oil filter. Plan B was to clean em up, check n' deck em ($100-150) or possibly rebuild them,($650) and run them on the shortblock that came out of the car. The heads that came out of the car were freshly rebuilt with ZERO miles on them, so I had this fantasy of slapping new valves in them, setting the lash and I'd be goochie for 250 bucks.

So to summarize:
Option 1: Replace the bent valves, line bore the Left hand exhaust cam journal of Engine A.
Estimated cost: ?
Drawbacks: cost may be prohibitive.

Option 2: Clean, check and deck the heads from Engine B and put them on Engine A
Estimated cost: $150
Drawbacks: Difficult to feel confident that all the debris was removed

Option 3: Attempt to put the EJ254 JDM-only, AVCS(on intake) Non-turbo EJ25 heads (which have been sitting in my garage for 10 years or so) on Engine A shortblock
Estimated cost: $0
Drawbacks: some parts are simply not possible to source, and I'm not sure if it's even possible to make them work satisfactorily.

Option 4: Rebuild heads from engine B
Estimated cost: $650
Drawbacks: more than I really want to spend.

0ption 5: Source used engine (maybe a JDM EJ20?)
Estimated cost: $1000-2000
Drawbacks: Smaller displacement engine, cost, and who knows how good the engines are, i could be back to square one.

so mike, break it down for me sesame street style.

[lord flashheart]

i was poking around to see if anyone had put the EJ254 heads on a EJ255. I forgot the cam sensor is different. It's theoretically possible to swap the camshafts and bore the cam sensor hole to work, but swapping camshafts makes the idea cost-prohibitive. I will continue to sit on these until get the ambition to put them in the 95.

[mike-tracy]

When you say "Cam sensor" you mean avcs sensor, right? I have a set of those same heads (may have bought em from you back in the day?), and they look near-identical to my jdm Ver 8 STI heads. Obviously without the turbo coolant and oil ports. The avcs paddles on the intake cams are way different than my usdm ej257 cams. The cam "paddles" on the jdm ej254's look the same as the jdm ver 8 (makes sense, right?).

Are you going to actually keep this car or fix it up, drive it for a bit then sell it? If you are going to keep it, I wouldn't use any of the heads you have. I'd start with a better set that needs decking if anything. If you're gonna sell it, I'd have a shop polish the journals and/or cams on the junkyard heads (based on their recommendation), and deck if necessary. don't worry about rebuilding them. Slap those onto the better bottom end, and be done with it.

I live kinda near delta cams, and they polished up my ver 8 heads back in the day. The journals weren't too pretty, but they removed the bare minimum material and I've been good ever since. This is something I wouldn't tackle myself, whereas I can and have rebuilt several heads and am comfortable doing that. If they weren't hard-to-find-at-a-reasonable-price I would have scrapped em and started with better condition heads.

[Alucard]

Option 3: Attempt to put the EJ254 JDM-only, AVCS(on intake) Non-turbo EJ25 heads (which have been sitting in my garage for 10 years or so)

The hybrid madman in me suggests three things:

1. Use the 254 heads. I wouldn't even remove the intake cams (provided they are in the heads) unless it were to measure lift and duration (which should be greater than their 255 counterpart). The AVCS should be just as operational as the 255 AVCS is after the necessary conversion is needed to run it.

2. Retain the 254 intake cams, use the 255 exhaust cams. I'm betting that the 254 intake cam possess more lift than the 255 intake cam and combined with the 255 exhaust cam, the existing overlap should be sufficient enough to cause a cooling effect for the chambers yet be short enough that it aids/does not impede spool.

3. Historically, a new approach always yields new data. If/when it works, we will find out how well. If it does not work, then we will know what not to do. A turbo EJ254 hybrid would be interesting to run, though. Especially if the intake cam is as hot as I've heard it to be amongst many.

[mike-tracy]

Can the car's ecu control JDM 16bit AVCS? I was under the impression that it couldn't. That's why people swap in the quad avcs ej20x/y, because even with the exhaust avcs disabled, the intake side is compatible with the American stuff.

[Alucard]

Can the car's ecu control JDM 16bit AVCS? I was under the impression that it couldn't. That's why people swap in the quad avcs ej20x/y, because even with the exhaust avcs disabled, the intake side is compatible with the American stuff.

I was thinking that he could swap the 255 driver side intake cam gear w/reluctor onto the 254 and use the 255 cam sensor in the 254 head to read it (provided it is all compatible, 32bit hardware conversion would be complete).

If that can be done with even the slightest mod needed to get it to fit, problem potentially solved, especially if it's anything like the EJ204/X/Y variants. As for turbo/coolant return and feed lines, I can't imagine those would be too difficult to reconfigure.

[lord flashheart]

I would probably make the attempt at swapping the EJ255 cam and sensor over to the EJ254 heads if it weren't for having to set the lash. I'm not sure if I will keep it or sell it. I am totally game to buy a new set of heads, the problem is they don't exactly just fall out of the sky. which would probably be terrifying if they did. If I had a legit spring compressor and could disassemble/assemble them myself, it would open up more options because it would bring the cost down, however as this situation stands, I am likely to check and deck the Junkyard heads and slap them on.

If i decide to keep this, i will probably do the bare minimum to get it running and driving, then slowly accumulate the parts (Turbo, rods, pistons, etc.) for the build. then when the time comes, i just yank the running engine and drop in the built motor. (This is what I did with my BD).

[mike-tracy]

Too bad we don't live closer, we could make a Saturday out of r&r'ing a set of heads.

Either way, I would have the less bad heads inspected by a machine shop and see what they say about the scoring on the cams and journals.

[mike-tracy]

If that can be done with even the slightest mod needed to get it to fit, problem potentially solved, especially if it's anything like the EJ204/X/Y variants. As for turbo/coolant return and feed lines, I can't imagine those would be too difficult to reconfigure.

The single avcs cam gears are the same (or at least interchangeable between JDM and usdm, it all boils down to the avcs pickup sensor.

Those are physically different sizes between usdm and JDM. I don't have a set of 255/257 heads on hand to compare em.

I like how you're thinking about mixing and matching cams though. I heard ej255/7 had less aggressive intake but more aggressive exhaust cams, versus ej20 engines. My tuner always said there was a bit of easy power to be gained by swapping the exhaust cam for something else (but I failed to ask what he recommended at the time).


OTOH, people have been getting quad avcs ECU's running in 4th gens. Not sure if it's year dependent or not. But a description I read was you have to repin a few ECU pins to add exhaust avcs, and solder the original ecu's immobilizer module to the new ECU. (I feel like this description is grossly simplified, but it's what I read lol), and then it just works? Would be an interesting excercise.

[Alucard]

I would probably make the attempt at swapping the EJ255 cam and sensor over to the EJ254 heads if it weren't for having to set the lash. I'm not sure if I will keep it or sell it.

I wouldn't even remove the 254 intake cams if you got 'em. Just swap 255 exhaust cams and buckets over in the 254 heads and rock on. Adjusting lash for 8 beats 16 any day. I've spoken to a close friend who has done a similar conversion and apparently, it shouldn't take too much to get 255 sensors in 254 heads. Measuring the sensors' difference in size and then machining the spots on the 254 head a bit to accept them.

The single avcs cam gears are the same (or at least interchangeable between JDM and usdm, it all boils down to the avcs pickup sensor.

Those are physically different sizes between usdm and JDM. I don't have a set of 255/257 heads on hand to compare em.

I like how you're thinking about mixing and matching cams though. I heard ej255/7 had less aggressive intake but more aggressive exhaust cams, versus ej20 engines. My tuner always said there was a bit of easy power to be gained by swapping the exhaust cam for something else (but I failed to ask what he recommended at the time

Lol, mixing and matching is life! You never know what hidden potentials you unlock by playing the game. In my experience, JDM EJ20's have always had more aggressive cams than their USDM and even the 2.5 DOHC counterparts.

[lord flashheart]

Well, originally i was saving the EJ254 heads to swap into my EJ23 build in my 95, and I think I will stick with that plan. Ill send the Junkyard EJ255 heads to the machine shop to have them checked and decked.

Speaking of AVCS on the BD, I am fairly certain that my AEM EMS4 isn't really designed to run AVCS, but I think i could probably set it up to have a binary position like on/off at a set RPM and Load point. The EMS4 Doesn't need to run a cam sensor on the 32-2-2 tooth crank set up which is what i am running (Though, i can't remember why).
Anyway,
I will need your guys help identifying a wire. Im going to take a picture of it, its just dangling in the 05. I don't know what it goes to, looks like the previous owner pulled the engine or something and forgot to disconnect it...

[Tylerhartman]

yikes from the shady dude working on this last, should be fun project. picked up a used 255 for our 97 silver wagon. hoping it turns out better than this, if not it's getting an ej22 or something weird with the b25 heads

will be removing my epic engineering legacy gt sedan spring very soon (they are made by Eibach IIRC) if you are interested

[lord flashheart]

Well, i found a guy who can line bore the cams. I found him via word of mouth sort of deal, and his price was fairly reasonable, so i am going to have him do it.
Does anyone know off the top of your head what this wire goes to?

[mike-tracy]

Could that be the passenger front abs plug?

[lord flashheart]

Thanks for the suggestion mike, ill investigate that.

tore the shortblock down all the way. I'm glad I did because rod-bearing failure was imminent.
For some reason I cant upload photos..

[lord flashheart]

Well i mic'd the crank and pistons etc. and it looks like i dodged a bullet, and will be able to get away with polishing the crank and honing the block. Ive ordered the parts and started cleaning everything up for assembly. Kind of amazing what Simple Green and elbow grease can do

[mike-tracy]

That's great news! Saves you $350 or more for a new crank

[Alucard]

How far were you able to get with reconditioning the bottom end? Those rod bearings looked SHOT. The crank bearings looked way healthier by comparison. Last I checked, there were adaptation concerns with the 254 heads.

[lord flashheart]

Sorry for my absence. With school, work, and the holidays i just didnt have time to log in.
Anywho.
I can't remember if I said this in a previous post and I'm too lazy to scroll, but I found a local guy who does line bores on Subaru and he quoted me a very reasonable price. However he told me a week, its now been 5-6 weeks and still no heads. In the meantime, I purchased some paint and clearcoat for the hood. I also found a screaming deal on a 05 Outback XT, with a nasty oil leak that the owner couldn't seem to fix. I bought it for about $1000 and it runs and drives really well but was rough around the edges. leather seat bottoms were torn to shit, so i bought some nice cloth seats from the junk yard for 80 bucks, then used the seat backs form the Outback to replace the worn leather bolster on the Legacy. The oil leak was from the flange on the oil return line. Looks like he dropped the turbo on the return line or something and it bent the flange i used a metal file to make it flat and haven't had an issue since. I changed the shit Caveman style. check it out:

[lord flashheart]

Alright, im posting for anyone else out there. I made one of those interesting discoveries involving the EJ254 heads on a EJ255.
SO i found a set of EJ254 JDM late style AVCS heads for a steal. i bought them, drilled and tapped them for the turbo lines and installed the engine. it has had a host of other issues that i believe to be solved, but... I discovered something important for anyone asking "can you put EJ254 cams in an EJ255 heads?" physically they fit, and visually they are identical. however I put them in and my car would not start. after cranking the engine for a moment i get a code saying the camshaft circuit is F'd. further tinkering found that the car would start and run beautifully, IF the passenger side camshaft was unplugged. long story short, its the camshaft position trigger appears to be in different phases. so i am going to have to take these Intake camshafts out, and put in EJ255 cams. pictures to come.. hopefully