MSD Conversion (Update: wiring picture added 11/4/07)

[AJM]

EDIT!: pending further investigation this is for BD 95-99 legacy both ej22 and ej25 and 93-99 impreza(It would probably work on a ej18) only.


I'm not sure of it's compatiblity with older models.

I already posted this up somewhere else, but thought some of you might want to try it.


Here is the way it went. It all is alot easier than it seems.

1) Get MSD 8229 or 8239 (the difference is the terminals, the 8229 is round terminals, the 8239 is flat terminals. at this stage, its irrelevent)
This part usually retails for $80. find it on ebay for cheap.

2) Go to junk yard (or ebay), go to a 95-00 dodge Neon, 95-99 mistubishi eclipse GS or RS, 95-99 eagle talon ESI, 95-99 chrysler sebring 2.0L, 95-99 dodge avenger 2.0L.

3) Once you find one of these vehicles, find the ignition coil (its not hard, its the black box on the top of the valve cover). Find the connector end that plugs into your MSD ignition coil. Take that connector end off of the ignition coil and cut the wires going to it. leave about 3-4 inches before the connector so you have plenty of wire to work with. Also, for the EJ22, EJ25 phase 1 guys, grab the plug wires. trust me, later, you'll need them if your on a budget) and also 1 of the 4 bolts that hold the ignition coil to the valve cover.
These parts should be specifically "Damn cheap"

4) Go to a home despot (or lowe's or local hardware store) with the 1 bolt from that engine and one of your present bolt off of your stock ignition coil. Use the 1 bolt from that engine as a length reference, and the stock bolt as a thread pattern reference. Your only gonna use 2 of these new bolts, so dont bother buying more than 2 unless you have no other choise.

5) Now things kinda messy. Take the ignition coil on top of the intake manifold off, and take old the stock connector end off. once you do this, cut the old connector wiring off. Now wire in the new one wire for wire.

6) YAY! now using the bolts you got from (whateverplace) you can bolt it on and plug it in!

7) The next issue: If you have a phase 2 EJ22 EJ25, you can just plug up the stock ignition wires. If you have a phase 1 EJ22 or EJ25, buy some plug wires for a phase 2 and plug them in. Your done.

8) Now if you are the poorest of poor and cant AFFORD new wires, having those from the yard are now gonna come in handy. Take the wires from the engine you ripped stuff from the yard. Rip the boots off. They should literally pull right off. Take off the connector that plugs onto the ignition coil terminal off (note: it may be hard to do) then repeat the process with the stock wires. Put the new plugs that plug onto that MSD box onto the stock wires. ((IMPORTANT) The core of the wire MUST connect to the plug that attaches to the terminal. otherwise, all your work is in vain.) After you do all this, slide the spark plug boots from the plug wires pulled from the yard onto your modified spark plug wires. Make sure the end of the plug reaches the end of your boot. Then connect your modified stock wires to the MSD ignition. TADA your done!

The benifits of having done all this work.
Better MPG
Better Powerband
Better Sound (yes, makes your car sound better, a more definitive
throaty sound)
Idles smoother
Looks better on the engine
Makes you look smart for making it

Photo of Wiring

[Reason]

I need a Legacy to do this damnit

[d1giPhux]

Nice writeup man! You should get some exhaust soundclips just for fun.. sounds like a cool project to do. How much did it cost you total? Are the benefits really noticeable? What is the MAIN purpose in doing this? Looks awesome man!

[Reason]

He says what it does, don't be like me and not read the posts. I at least read the main one.

[MCarp22]

When we were writing the neon book we found that the normal neon coil had more or less the same output as the MSD coil. Using a normal neon coil ought to be cheaper.

Anyone know the specs of the stock subaru coil?

[AJM]

Nice writeup man! You should get some exhaust soundclips just for fun.. sounds like a cool project to do. How much did it cost you total? Are the benefits really noticeable? What is the MAIN purpose in doing this? Looks awesome man!

It cost me about $75 but I was savvy and got the ignition on ebay for about $10 below retail, and made my plugg wires. My friend had the splicing stuff ,but I don't imgaine that would cost alot. I got the wires from a u-pull-it junkyard for 50 cents each and the conector for like a buck...soo...yeah. Even with buying everything it shouldn't cost much more than $100-120. If you go the cheaper route like me under $80. If you wantt to grab some higher performance pluggs to really juice things up like I did that will cost you probably $40 (I bought bosch iridum {sp?}) of course that drives the price up to about $120 ,but I needed new pluggs anyway so, I don't really count that.

It is very noticeable. Feels like I gained 3-7 hp and the powerband itself is so much more well rounded. The car idles and drives smoother as well. I also have noticed about a 5-7 mpg increase over my dimond. Also, like I said my car sounds more muscular which is always a plus!

My main purpose for doing this? Better fuel economy and more power! I swear with the savings in mpg, It will pay for itself.

[ivwarrior]

but I needed new pluggs anyway so, I don't really count that.

Sure it was the coil, and not just new plugs and wires that made the difference?

[badbasser98]

Sure it was the coil, and not just new plugs and wires that made the difference?

+1

[d1giPhux]

Nice writeup man! You should get some exhaust soundclips just for fun.. sounds like a cool project to do. How much did it cost you total? Are the benefits really noticeable? What is the MAIN purpose in doing this? Looks awesome man!

It cost me about $75 but I was savvy and got the ignition on ebay for about $10 below retail, and made my plugg wires. My friend had the splicing stuff ,but I don't imgaine that would cost alot. I got the wires from a u-pull-it junkyard for 50 cents each and the conector for like a buck...soo...yeah. Even with buying everything it shouldn't cost much more than $100-120. If you go the cheaper route like me under $80. If you wantt to grab some higher performance pluggs to really juice things up like I did that will cost you probably $40 (I bought bosch iridum {sp?}) of course that drives the price up to about $120 ,but I needed new pluggs anyway so, I don't really count that.

It is very noticeable. Feels like I gained 3-7 hp and the powerband itself is so much more well rounded. The car idles and drives smoother as well. I also have noticed about a 5-7 mpg increase over my dimond. Also, like I said my car sounds more muscular which is always a plus!

My main purpose for doing this? Better fuel economy and more power! I swear with the savings in mpg, It will pay for itself.

Thanks for the extra info. I did read the post, i was just asking what it MAINLY did.. aka, what it did best. Sounds like a great upgrade!

[dankoneon81]

never thought I'd see people using stock neon stuff as up grades lol! I guess I'll give it a try seeing as how I have 4 of those coils laying and the connectors. Anyone wanna buy one?

[AJM]

Actually, I put the msd on before the wires and new pluggs and saw a nice difference. ( I connected the old wires up ghetto fabulous before making the new ones.)

I'll explain why MSD is better than stock neon coil later. I'm beat from a long day at school.

[Huffer]

AJM - good writeup. I have been thinking about an MSD coil pack for awhile now, and you've helped keep me interested in the idea.

[Plays_with_Toys]

When we were writing the neon book we found that the normal neon coil had more or less the same output as the MSD coil. Using a normal neon coil ought to be cheaper.

Anyone know the specs of the stock subaru coil?

How could you measure the output, and can you measure the output of a subaru one and tell us the difference between it and the neon/msd?

[Wiscon_Mark]

I'll explain why MSD is better than stock neon coil later. I'm beat from a long day at school.

I believe it has to do with how it fires the plugs?

[backpack09]

That would be my guess to, but you are only using the coil of the MSD and not the ignition box which actually makes an MSD a Multiple spark system.

My guess is that the MSD coils are either just replacing old and tired coils, or they actually fire with more juice (volts, amps, watts or something like that ) than the stockers.

[dankoneon81]

IRRC from the service manual the neon coil is supposed to be capable of 60-80k volts and just me IT HURTS really bad. btw in the testing of various parts on my 2 neons and on my brothers we never really saw any gains between a stocker or the msd coil. however the msd dis2 igniotn box has proven to be wonderful especially the 2 step rev limiter. bad ass 60 foot times

[dankoneon81]

oh just fyi I just remembered a important bit of info. Dont use the 95 style connector(round pin) the female end inside the connector has a dendency to open up just a lil over time and it will drop two cylinders and come back. I had a real problem with this not only on the black neon but also on my other neon. Thats the reason the I converted all my plugs to the 96+ style haven't had a problem since then. and I checked my surplus parts and I only have one 96 coil but two connectors. If you do this mod and in the future decide to add a msd ignition box they make a plug and play connector to make wiring it up a breeze.

[MCarp22]

How could you measure the output

We did a before / after dyno test on a 300whp neon. Started with the MSD coil that it came with, and then swapped to my stock 100k coil. No difference in HP, no missfires, etc.

[Wiscon_Mark]

How could you measure the output

We did a before / after dyno test on a 300whp neon. Started with the MSD coil that it came with, and then swapped to my stock 100k coil. No difference in HP, no missfires, etc.

So apparently a stock neon has a good ignition system. They did make good power out of that little 2.0L...

[dankoneon81]

theres a good amount of people running 12 and even 11 on stock coils mike and back me up on that

[Wiscon_Mark]

Okay, all this neon comparison is all cool, but I'd rather relate it to the Legacy

Obviously the OP said it made a difference, is there anyone else who has done something like this on their Legacy?

[MCarp22]

is there anyone else who has done something like this on their Legacy?

I'd like to try it soon!

[Wiscon_Mark]

Me too! If it is, I may just use a Neon coil...

[AJM]

Stock Suabru igntion coil is 28k volts max


Stock Neon ignition coil 34k volts MAX

MSD ignition coil 36K volts MAX

Screamin demon by Howell automotive 40K volts MAX
(so much voltage, you have to re-gap the spark plugs)

The stock neon coil has higher resistors than the MSD one, so the maximum amount of voltage isn't achieved. the screamin' demon I don't suggest because it can have adverse effects with other mods. (rough idle, engine knocking,etc.) So, for using the screamin' demon, you have to have other ignition mods to stablize it too.

[backpack09]

Wow. The stock neon Coil is a hell of a lot more powerfull than the stocker. That looks, like a great cheap upgrade.

Thanks for the DIY.

[dankoneon81]

screamin demon + regapped plugs= bad. Alot of .org guys were having problems with that

[AJM]

Which is hwy I don't suggest it.

[ryankenn]

How hardy are the MSD Coils ie, are they easy to wreck. I've found some used ones, but its buyer beware. Would you really have to do something bad to ruin that piece?

[AJM]

How hardy are the MSD Coils ie, are they easy to wreck. I've found some used ones, but its buyer beware. Would you really have to do something bad to ruin that piece?

No, you;d have to really abuse one to break it. A friend of mine had an engine fire and his msd still worked fine afterwards.

[AJM]

Also, the stock one isnt very durable. The cover and the insulation material isnt very durable for withstanding the heat created in the engine bay of engines that are pushed hard. Typically, they only send out only 31k due to the weaker insulation material.

The MSD is stronger in every aspect. Basically, when you have a stronger spark, you get better sound and MPG over all. The car itself feels more power by seat of pants ,and as we all know, seat of pants and actual dyno are two entirly different things.