What do you think?

[slip]

Lets talk SUV's. They are a joke right? Who would possibly need a giant, gas hogging, over-priced, rolling house? Sure they all have "off-road capabilities" and some even have decenly powerful engines but when it comes down to it they are a complete waste of money. What can you do with an SUV that you couldn't in, say, an Outback or a Matrix? (besides run over cars like ours without hesitation) Seriously they should be banned or something, but instead the automotive industry seems to be in a race to build more and more. Some of them are even the exact same SUV as that made by another manufacturer. Example: the Trailblazer, Envoy, Buick whatever, and the Saab SUV are the exact same thing yet people justify paying more money for a name. And look at Toyota for pete's sake, they make the RAV4, Highlander, 4Runner, and Sequoia. What would one manufacturer need to sell four different SUVs for? I think half the reason SUVs were created is so the people that have too much of an ego to buy a minivan have something more manly to drive.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Way to go Slip! You said it all man. SUVs are an ego trip for men and a safety net (for them, not others) for women. Some people will only feel safe in an SUV because they have no faith in others. But it really comes down to it, its their driving that has them feeling unsafe. Have you ever seen a courteous, good SUV driver? I mean, its hard to pick out good drivers in general, but you see a lot more bad SUV drivers than any others on the road. Unless, of course, you count old people in Caddys and Lincolns, but those are usually HUGE vehicles too. SUVs are a waste of money both in intial cost and upkeep (gas, repairs, very poor in both). Men, if you want an expensive ego trip, get a vette. Ladies, if you want a family vehicle, get a minivan or a station wagon. Period.

I would also like to add, for the bad weather arguement, that Subarus handle TEN TIMES BETTER in snow and ice because they're lower to the ground. When you can't handle decently on dry pavement, 4WD isn't going to help you much in the snow, except maybe to get you out of a ditch. If you reason is snow, buy a Subaru.

[gator gt]

I don't know. The full size SUV's I could do without (so could society)...but the compact and midsize SUV's are okay.

I owned a Jeep Cherokee before the Subaru and loved it. In fact there are days I'd love to have it back...not for a deficiency in the Subaru, but the Jeep had better leverage (versus a Subaru) in traffic, rode higher, and had a good mix of truck and car in it.

Humvees, navigators, escalades, Lexus LX450, and the such can cease and desist as of yesterday and not only would I not weep, I'd rejoice.

Oh yeah, toss in the Porsche Cayenne into the same 'I don't like them' category.

GGT

[Plays_with_Toys]

I think 90% if SUV's could burn and I wouldn't care. Here's where they do matter.

The people who actually do go fourwheeling. The toyota 4 runner is a very popular wheeling machine. In fact, all those midsize SUV's have their nitch of four wheelers.

The big big big, obnoxious ones? Some people tow with them. Can't do that in a wagon.

Now having said that. Do the majority of people use their vehicles for these purposes? No. Most huge SUV's have idiots who can't drive and have no awareness of their vehicle behind the wheel. Beyond that, they sit so high. You get behind one with black tinted windows, and there's just no way to see ahead of them. Ok, so SUV's get you to see above other people. If people didn't drive the damn things, you could see fine in your cars. My legacy definately didn't handle the snow better than my yota did. Its SO low that I was high centered in 5 inches of snow. I have to slow way the heck down for puddles, and gutters. I have to gauge each one. My toyota pickup got me through 2 ft of snow and over a foot of water without a hickup. Truck was a piece of crap. Lots of stuff wrong with it, but it did handle the bad weather very nicely. Now, having said that, outbacks and foresters sit high enough not to get affected like mine did, and they handle quite nicely. The smaller SUV's (Rav4, CRV) are actually quite nimble and perform just like cars, and sit only a foot higher or so in the drivers seat.

But, there still is no substitute for people carrying than the minivan. I can't remember the time a larger SUV scored well in crash tests. The minivans constantly do well and are just LOADED with storage and safety. Some of them can scoot pretty quick too.

The last argument, SUV's just can't stop. It takes an SUV 30-40ft more to stop at higher speeds. They're too heavy and they have huge tires. Cars are a ton more stable in evasive/emergency maneuvers, and even vans beat the SUV's ugly.

I've gathered these views from my driving school. See, parents bring their kids with the parent's cars. Then we do alot of high intensity driving instruction. I can say the hummer is a piece of crap in all respects, but actually has some really nice steering. Subaru's are actually super nice. Their suspension is generally soft to feel what the car is doing, but not too soft that you can overdrive the dynamics.

[slip]

Jeeps I can understand because they are purpose built, like the original Landcruiser, to be an off-road vehicle. As for the Toyota pickup, thats different. Pickup trucks are very useful and also purpose built. True many people tow with thier SUV's, but many more just use them as cars making them uttery pointless. Some of the newer SUVs are actually earning thier place in the market as both on and off road vehicles. The new 4Runner for one is very impressive if anybody here has driven one. They are very stable on pavement, powerful, and braking is more similar to a car. Plus Toyota's Down-Hill Decent system is amazing. With the push of a button you can let the thing crawl down a rocky hill on its own without having to brake or give it gas, and I've tried it first hand. But I'm sure half the owners of the new 4Runners have never used Down-Hill Decent and chances are they don't even know it's equipped. True when taken off-road nearly any SUV can prove to be fun, but when I see all the soccer-moms driving thier Suburbans while they talk on thier cell-phones I somehow doubt that it's 4x4 capabilities are why thier husbands bought the thing for them in the first place.


One thing I would like to know is what would happen if there was another fuel crisis?

[Wiscon_Mark]

One thing I would like to know is what would happen if there was another fuel crisis?

It would be a scary time at the Used Car lot.

[shazapple]

My dad drives a 4Runner. Its a very nice vehicle and put together damn well. When driving it it does give you a 'Im bigger than you, get out of my wayor die!' kinda attitude.

Its also a very capable offroad/hauling machine, I dont have much experience with other SUV's though. Those HUGE luxury SUV's are a complete waste of time though.

If you dont need a trailer hitch on your SUV, then you dont need an SUV

[SubaruGenki]

For tax purposes Outbacks new Outbacks are considered SUV's....

[Wiscon_Mark]

They might as well be...I'm not offended, they're just as capable as most SUVs and a lot more practical and comfortable, not to mention more sporty than pretty much any SUV.

[NDBBM]

My dad drives a 4Runner. Its a very nice vehicle and put together damn well. When driving it it does give you a 'Im bigger than you, get out of my wayor die!' kinda attitude.

Do yourself a favor and loose that attitude in the 4 runner. I had an 85 and have a few friends that had newer models. Although I did love mine for the fun value I knew full well if I ever got in a crash I was toast.

[galek_98gt]

i'd kinda like a Sequoia.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Bump.

Yes, I just bumped the oldest topic in OT

Take that Matt

[Superu264]

And look at Toyota for pete's sake, they make the RAV4, Highlander, 4Runner, and Sequoia. What would one manufacturer need to sell four different SUVs for?

and now.......

FJ Cruiser

that makes 5

[Perdue]

Bump.

Yes, I just bumped the oldest topic in OT

Take that Matt

I was thinking, "wow...slip's posting here again?"

[ooberdoob]

what happened to him?

[bubaru21]

i dont know if its the car or the driver. i once had a 92 chevy blazer, and i used every aspect of the car i would pile my friends in it, i would very frequently go offroading, i even towed a buddy of mine's truck with it, but it was a gas hog, even then it was exspensive to drive (gas was still like 2 a gallon then). yes it was a dangerous vehicle if you didnt know what you are doing. i will admit i got it up on 2 wheels when i first got the car just simply becuase i did not know you could not drive an suv like a car.

[SilentRacer]

As an owner of both a legacy and an Highlander SUV, I can tell you the legacy's suspension is much harder then the toyota's. I also feel more invincible in the SUV and much safer cause I could see over traffic. And I want to see you fit a big screen tv in an outback. Higher off the ground for giant puddle clearance as well.

[Perdue]

what happened to him?

I'm guessin he's busy with school or something. I think he was going to wyotech last time he posted here. I think he was trying to sell his legacy too, but I don't know if I'm recalling correctly.

As far as the topic, I think it all has to do with the driver. I'd never own a larger SUV, but I've thought about an Xterra, Forester, or the like.

[Wiscon_Mark]

And I want to see you fit a big screen tv in an outback.

If I had a Big screen, I'd do it. It's not that hard, outbacks have quite a lot of cargo space.

[shazapple]

Since my last post weve sold our 4Runner and old ford truck to buy a 2000 Toyota Tundra crew cab. Very nice truck and is capable of more than the SUV (space, towing, etc...)

It seems theyve been crossbreeding the large useless SUV with the slow economical minivan to create a much nicer looking/working vehicle. Its a good move, especially since the days of the SUV are numbered.

[SilentRacer]

And I want to see you fit a big screen tv in an outback.

If I had a Big screen, I'd do it. It's not that hard, outbacks have quite a lot of cargo space.

What I meant was the height from the floor of the vehicle to the roof. I have no doubt the outback has plenty of cargo room length wise.

[Wiscon_Mark]

If the big screen is taller than 4 feet (the horizontal space, because I wouldn't just stick the TV in straight up) then I'm renting a truck

[GrassyKnoll]

SUVs ARE practical for those who use them properly.

95% of the time SUVs aren't advertised, sold, bought, or used in a practical way. The attitude that this country has toward them is absolutely rediculous. If you go into any city, you will see more SUVs then if you drive through the countryside. THAT is rediculous.

However, if used properly, I don't see any problem with them at all. My dad has a Jeep Cherokee and is soon replacing it with a JMC Envoy Denali. He uses it to haul building materials to/from his work house over an hour away and uses it to tow trailers. It is also very useful in transporting large numbers of people in a comfortable setting. However, he uses his 05 Legacy for his daily driver.

As far as I am concerned it makes sense to use it for purposes that other cars / trucks can't fulfil but doesn't make sense for the city-going bimbo.

Agree?

[Wiscon_Mark]

Agreed.

Unfortunately, once you go to the country, you get more trucks than anything else. And those are just as inefficient.

I can see a truck being useful for a farmer, but honestly, we all know there aren't that many farms left.

[SilentRacer]

SUVs ARE practical for those who use them properly.

95% of the time SUVs aren't advertised, sold, bought, or used in a practical way. The attitude that this country has toward them is absolutely rediculous. If you go into any city, you will see more SUVs then if you drive through the countryside. THAT is rediculous.

However, if used properly, I don't see any problem with them at all. My dad has a Jeep Cherokee and is soon replacing it with a JMC Envoy Denali. He uses it to haul building materials to/from his work house over an hour away and uses it to tow trailers. It is also very useful in transporting large numbers of people in a comfortable setting. However, he uses his 05 Legacy for his daily driver.

As far as I am concerned it makes sense to use it for purposes that other cars / trucks can't fulfil but doesn't make sense for the city-going bimbo.

Agree?

You've obviously never seen potholes in the city that can eat a car whole .......can u say ground clearance

[Wiscon_Mark]

So that justifys an SUV?

[SilentRacer]

It justifys a helicopter, but the SUV is more practical.

[Wiscon_Mark]

An outback has more ground clearance than a Ford Explorer. How about that instead?

[Superu264]

An outback has more ground clearance than a Ford Explorer. How about that instead?

pwnage!

SUVs are worthless in the city, although some of the car based SUVs are alright (I think the Mazda CX-7 is sexy ) but when I see a Land Rover pulling into a parking lot I suddenly start to wonder how for the same money I could buy a 06 Legacy specB and mod the crap out of it....

[blackgtbeauty]

An outback has more ground clearance than a Ford Explorer. How about that instead?

pwnage!

SUVs are worthless in the city, although some of the car based SUVs are alright (I think the Mazda CX-7 is sexy ) but when I see a Land Rover pulling into a parking lot I suddenly start to wonder how for the same money I could buy a 06 Legacy specB and mod the crap out of it....

+1 to that