Lets play 'guess the broken part(s)'.

[d1giPhux]

So I was driving today, and all of the sudden my engine seemed to shut down..or bog out. It happened pretty suddenly, so I cant say for sure if it bogged down or just shut off. I heard a 'pop' noise.. then the power steering died, and the engine just seemed to stop. Luckily I was able to pull into a dirt lot.. where i tried to start the engine back up.

At first I thought it may have been the crank belt / power steering belt.. but it wasnt that. Then i checked to see if the crank was moving.. and it seems that all of the belts where. I did see some smoke coming from around the crank when it happened.. but im not sure if that was just stuff burning off of the engine or what?

I'm not sure how else I can describe what is happening.. but it just wont start. I try to turn it over, the engine just shakes.. and it seems to make a whining / grinding noise a bit.

I will try to get a video of it later on today.. as right now im going to have it towed to subaru. =[

I dont know if this is something I can fix myself.. but seems pretty random that it just happened so suddenly.. and I wasnt even going fast or anything!!

Any ideas as to WHAT it might be would be greatly appreciated. Or if you can help me diagnose it further.. that would be nice as well!

Thanks!

[Reason]

I wish I could help you out, but maybe you should just get another one and sell me yours for CHEAP!!

[ivwarrior]

Did you pull the cover off to see if the timing belt is intact?

[d1giPhux]

I was thinking it was possibly the timing belt as well.. but I didnt have any tools on me.. so I have not really been able to get into it much at all yet. Its still sitting in the dirt parking lot as of now.. and I'm deciding if i want to get it towed to subaru to have them check it out for $80.. or have it towed back to my apt. If it is the timing belt.. could this have caused any other damage from it snapping?

edit: If its something super serious.. I think i will just try to find a wrx engine and have ECS put it in! haha.. i wish. Wonder how much that would cost total.. maybe less if i could get someone to help me install the hardware.. and they could just do wiring. But im hoping its not serious.

[2.5GT]

ha! isn't common that every subaru breaks down?

Sorry to hear about that, but you're a subie tech, you can fix it!


on a side note: I need 2 front knuckles and hubs ..oh my subie is killing me, one project right after the next....and it's not even aftermarket parts!

[d1giPhux]

Haha, I wish i was enough of a subie tech to fix these problems! Unfortunately dont know TOO much when it comes to tearing engines apart.. and I dont have a garage either! looks like its going to be an expensive month. I'm assuming something serious broke.. which sucks. Anyone want to help me with a WRX swap!!? Haha.. that would be nice. Maybe i could just have someone help me put in the engine / rear diff and then have ECS do the wiring or something. Oh man, that would be sweet!

So yea, the car is at subaru right now.. gonna have them diagnose it for $50..we'll see what the damage estimate comes back as!

[d1giPhux]

So the stealership thinks its the timing belt.. duh.. I'm assuming it is too. They want $300 to dive into that and diagnose.. makes me wish i just did it at my damn house or the parking lot where i got it towed at! damn i hate the stealership. So if the belt broke.. who wants to guess how much the valve job will be? fuck.. i wish i had someone around here to just help me swap the engine.. im sick of being slow! LOL.

[Hocrest]

.. i wish i had someone around here to just help me swap the engine..

Where are you?? I could help...

[d1giPhux]

up in NH.. so.. bit of a distance from you =/ .

I wonder how much subaru is going to charge me for this valve business.. i mean, I wonder if its even really worth paying 1500-2k for valves (which is what i think they will charge me) on an engine that has 140k. I could probably get a wrx engine and such for around the same price.. then try to have someone help me put it in. Yes.. the wiring would be a hugeeeee bitch.. but i suppose i COULD pay someone like ECS or someone to do it.. or just tough it out. I dont know.. just wondering if this is really worth it.. since I will have to decide soon. I'm guessing i'll just go with getting the damn thing fixed.. but the thought of having a faster car is so tempting!

[2.5GT]

let them work on it, and hope it runs. or like you said, replace it with a wrx engine.

do you have a beater car? use the beater car for daily driver, and work on the subie on the side.

[ivwarrior]

There's all sorts of things that could be damaged if the timing belt broke. Unfortunately, there's no easy way to tell without tearing the engine apart, or just putting a new belt on and hoping for the best. Could lead to a pretty big repair bill......I'd probably either swap, or get a reman engine if the current one is damaged. At least with a reman, you get a warranty.

[d1giPhux]

Yea.. or just buy another engine for like $800-1100 and drop it in.. cant be hard to drop in the same exact type of engine anyways.. since its exactly the same. I really hope not much is wrong with it.. I will be finding out shortly here.. but the way he said it.. sounds like more shit is wrong. I'm really hoping the timing just skipped.. and didnt break.. but knowing my luck, its going to cost me an arm and a leg and maybe 2 of my balls!

[redlegacygt]

your swap could be done a little cheaper if your car is already 5spd.. my motor and rear diff, pedal assembly, mt driveshaft, all the wiring and an extra long block is only costing me 1500.. But that from a buddy of mine.

Wiring can be done for 600. and i've gotten quotes for a whole swap at 3500. Thats with going from AT to MT.

[d1giPhux]

Okay.. so this is what they are saying now. I have 2 options:

1. Replace Cam Idler Pulleys for $700
2. Pull apart cylinder head and see if there is any valve damage / replace HG's - #2500

So yea.. this pretty much blows. Not sure what i should do.. i mean.. damn, i guess there really IS no way they can narrow it down without costing me an arm and a leg.

Any suggestions people?

This blows.

I mean christ.. if im going to spend that much.. fuck this engine. argh! anyone wanna make offers on the shell!?

Oh.. and I already have a 5spd tranny. Hmm, wanna hook me up wih a wrx engine for cheap too!? haha. This blows.

[redlegacygt]

if your parting out, i'll take your tranny Im actually in your same position. Car died, took it to the garage.. They thought it was a starter, i told them no, the changed it anway and found out it wasnt the starter, but thought it had no compression from a busted timing belt. I told them they were prob. right and brought it home.

[d1giPhux]

Wish i knew someone right near me who could help with a swap.. because $2500 for the same POS 140k engine back.. yea.. doesnt sound like a good deal to me. I dont even care if dont have the car for a month or two.. guess im gonna have to buy a bike, or get use to walking again.

How much you think the car is worth if i part it out?
How much if i sell it outright?

Id really like to keep it however.. i just dont know WHAT to do. =/

I can get the full wrx swap for $3500 and ECS wants another $2570 to install it or so.

Thats JUST for the engine. Do i really need to do anything else.. such as suspension, etc etc?

Sucks I dont know anyone to help me.. id be all about learning about this stuff.. just have no one to show me the ways of the master. haha.

Damn car!

[Huffer]

Wish i knew someone right near me who could help with a swap.. because $2500 for the same POS 140k engine back.. yea.. doesnt sound like a good deal to me. I dont even care if dont have the car for a month or two.. guess im gonna have to buy a bike, or get use to walking again.

How much you think the car is worth if i part it out?
How much if i sell it outright?

Id really like to keep it however.. i just dont know WHAT to do. =/

I can get the full wrx swap for $3500 and ECS wants another $2570 to install it or so.

Thats JUST for the engine. Do i really need to do anything else.. such as suspension, etc etc?

You wouldn't need the suspension done if ECS does an engine swap. The engine will bolt up to whatever transmission you have. If that price includes parts, labor and wiring a WRX ECU into your harness, then you're golden.

It would make sense to do a transmission swap at the sametime if you have the parts around.

[redlegacygt]

no, its 3500 to swap everything. Includes wiring, motor, tranny and rear diff, which you wouldnt need so yours would be cheaper... JDMSPEC4U

[d1giPhux]

This is what they said to me:


Ill start with pricing for you.

Full WRX Conversion 7000 + 600 shipping from our supplier to us or our
supplier to you. (this is basically buying a damn wrx parts car)


WRX Motor Only Conversion Parts 3500+ 300 Shipping from our supplier to us
or our supplier to you. (this is just the engine im assuming.. no rear diff?)

Full conversion installation 3550.00 (not including rear diff)?

Motor Only installation 2750.00 (what i could barely afford )

So yea.. i feel like im screwed. Only way i could go that route would be to have someone help me with the physical install of the engine, then have ECS do wiring.

I found someone around here.. somewhat close selling this:

http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/pts/454714309.html

Which isnt too bad, but id try to talk him down.

Also.. mark, I've heard that the LGT tranny is better than the WRX tranny from several of the sites of read and such. I think i would need a new clutch however.. because mine is probably too weak for what type of power the wrx engine would be putting out.

Realistically.. i have about $5000 i could spend on this.. which basically means I cant do it without help / installing it myself / months of down time.



I dont even know what to do with this damn thing now, and the subaru hounds are pushing for me to pay the $2500 im sure.

[Huffer]

Full WRX Conversion 7000 + 600 shipping from our supplier to us or our
supplier to you. (this is basically buying a damn wrx parts car)


WRX Motor Only Conversion Parts 3500+ 300 Shipping from our supplier to us
or our supplier to you. (this is just the engine im assuming.. no rear diff?)

Full conversion installation 3550.00 (not including rear diff)?

Motor Only installation 2750.00 (what i could barely afford )

Also.. mark, I've heard that the LGT tranny is better than the WRX tranny from several of the sites of read and such. I think i would need a new clutch however.. because mine is probably too weak for what type of power the wrx engine would be putting out.

Realistically.. i have about $5000 i could spend on this.. which basically means I cant do it without help / installing it myself / months of down time.

I guess it depends on how decent of a shell you have, plus whether or not you want to buy premium gas from now on.

You can get away with just the engine & wire install, and do the tranny later. I doubt you'd have too many problems with the LGT tranny, unless you abuse it.

ECS could have it done in under a week, which is a helluavalot quicker than you could. Work an extra job for a few weeks to get back on your feet, cut back on your expenses a bit and get back on the road.

Your lowest cost option is to replace the motor with another stock one, and the dealership should kick in a free loaner car for all that work.

Don't pretend to be a victim, make them compete for your business.

Hey - why don't you see if ECS has any similar EJ25 DOHC engines they can sell you & install?

[d1giPhux]

Yea.. i could probably get another EJ25 engine put in for much cheaper than having this all fixed. I see them selling for arounf $300-800 all the time.

And compete for my business... id like to know who exactly they are going to compete with.. considering i live in the middle of nowhere.. and they are about the only people who will work on subarus.. ask reason, he will tell you how desolate it is in bum-fucks-ville!

It would be nice to get a free rental car.. i actually have this coupon for 1 day free rental car with over $300 in business.. which i could take up from them.. but i dont think i can even do that cause im only 21. I thought you had to be 25 to rent a car? At least in this state its like that.


Found someone selling a complete 03 wrx drivetrain for $2500 .. dont know how far they are. Says it comes with everything except the wiring harness. =/ hmm.

So.. that seems about complete + $3500 install... which isnt TOO bad.

However.. i might just get this junk fixed anyways. $700 to start, and $2500 if things really go wrong. I guess its not TOO bad.. just seems like a waste of money dumping $2500 into an engine with 148k+ and to top it off.. its not even a fast car! LOL

The only reason id spend the extra money on a wrx engine would be newer / faster.. and maybe more reliable.. but i doubt it.

Also.. only other reason im trying to get this figured out is.. because i have to decide if i want to go forward with the stealership fixing it or not.. or.. i guess it can just sit there.. i have no probs with that either... since its not going anywhere.

[Huffer]

Seriously, see if the Subaru dealership will put in a moderately used engine, and how much they would charge. You could buy an engine, have them install it and drive away.

[redlegacygt]

is ECS the only place you've looked at doing a swap?

[d1giPhux]

^ Yea.. so far.. because I don't even know WHERE else around here works on subaru. If anyone..

I know there is this one import shop around here... but i think the just work on Nissan / Toyota / Honda. There arent too many big name car shops around here and such.. jus dealerships and small hole in the wall type shops.

The only reason I'm considering the swap is.. because.. spending $2500 on fixing my old engine seems sort of pointless.. when i could pay just a bit more.. or have someone help me put it in. I do have a friend with an engine hoist and such.. but i think he mostly does honda swaps.. etc..etc.

So.. im not sure.. just putting all ideas out on the table right now.

Anywhere else on the east coast close to NH/ VT/ MA that does swaps that anyone knows of? The reason ECS would be easily accessible.. is its only about 1.5 hours from me.. and i could get a cheap uhaul car trailer + a friend to help me tow my car down there for cheap.

[d1giPhux]

So I asked that guy about his 2003 WRX engine he's selling.. this is what he said:
--------------------------------------------------------
It depends on if you want the stock I/C or aftermarket. I'd sell the Engine (Complete running longblock) with the turbo x-member, stock I/C and reflased (Tuned) ECU for ~$1700. Or $1900 with the aftermarket I/C and all it's parts. If this is too high make me an offer. I'll have to get the ECU reflashed back to stock if you don't want the aftermarket I/C as you can't run this much boost through the stock I/C safely. For this price you won't be getting the headers, but I will supply you with the factory exhuast manifold. You'll just need some gaskets for it.
--------------------------------------------------------
By long-block.. what does he means? I also forget what short/ long block means? Anyone know how much a complete wiring harness would run me?

Thats a pretty damn good deal for the whole engine.. if thats what he means. Then I could try to find someone to help me put it in, or pay ECS $3500.

Any thoughts on this?



Edit: This is what he said :


---------------------------------------------
Longblock is actually the wrong term here. I've selling a turnkey engine, which is a complete ready to run engine. I'll basically only be physically removing it. Nothing else comes apart. Longblock is typically deemed a shortblock (engine block, crank, rods, and pistons assembled) plus heads and sometimes intake manifold.

You are getting the engine, as pulled in complete form. I need NOTHING from it for my swap. It currently is in the car and running and has just over 87K on it. I'm in Indiana on the East side, about 45 minutes or so from the Ohio border.
------------------------------------------------------------

So looks like it IS basically turn key. Hmmm.. damn, im getting devious thoughts now.

What else would I need to add to the list?

-Complete Wiring Harness?

[SammyDaFish]

are you thinking of doing this swap on your own? if so, I think it's going to be to much for you to tackle. if you've got to ask all these questions you're not experienced enough to get this done quickly, and if you don't have a garage or a place to leave your car for a few months while you learn it's just not going to work for you.

I've seen a few DOHC EJ25s break the belt and be fine. Throwing a belt on and running it is easy work (about an hour's worth of time). you've got a 50/50 chance your engine will be fine. I dunno where this $700 estimate to do a timing belt is coming from, you're getting jacked big time if that's what they want. even at $100/hr labor rate it shouldn't be more than a $400 job. Going to the dealership isn't the best move. Subaru's are nothing special in the car world, actually they're much more simple than most other brands. Any shop would be able to fix your car and likely for half what the dealership wants.

$7k on a wrx swap is ludicrous, just buy a WRX if you want one. add the value of your current car and the price is the same, plus you don't have a hacked together car.



the lesson learned here, regular maintenance saves you headaches. Do your timing belt more often.

[d1giPhux]

Well.. the friend who I know around here who has the engine hoist.. etc. He's done swaps on other cars before.. even though they are honda.. im sure he could help me out. If he couldnt.. then id be down $3500 for ECS to install it / do the wiring.. etc. Which may be the best bet. I mean, $1800 for a wrx engine in working condition, complete.. sounds pretty tempting to me.

It was $700 for the cam pulleys.. so he said. I still think It would suck to pay $700 then realize the damn engine needs to come apart and add another $2500 to the bill.

I was told the timing belt was replaced.. but.. i never checked for papers with the guy, so i guess its kind of my fault. I've only really driven 10k miles on the car so far though.. so that sucks. The belt didnt break..it just skipped. Which.. as they say.. might have still caused damage. Is this correct?

I mostly want to do the wrx swap for speed..cause.. im getting a bit sick of the legacy being slow. =/ So.. its sort of like the 'if i dont jump on it now, im never going to do it' type of thing. Plus.. even if i do get this fixed.. and try to sell my car.. its not going to be worth more then 5k tops I bet. So .. i dunno.. just a couple of things that are pushing me towards it. If someone wants to direct me towards better info about the swap.. that would be helpful. Ive searched around.. mostly found stuff for impreza with wrx swaps.

And hey... if we never try anything.. we dont learn. I suppose i could just have everything done for me.. but thats not what were here for now is it?

I could be wrong..

[Huffer]

If you're close to ECS, I would just be a check-book racer.

[d1giPhux]

Thanks for the encouragement guys!

[SammyDaFish]

And hey... if we never try anything.. we dont learn. I suppose i could just have everything done for me.. but thats not what were here for now is it?

I'm totally for you trying to do the swap yourself and learn from, just don't do it on the side of the street since it will likely take you three times as long as you think it might. If you wanna try it yourself find a garage that you could use for a month or two while you figure it out



why do they think you need cam gears? I've never seen them break before... I mean I guess they could, but they are pretty tough, not really sure how that would happen.

You sure they didn't say cam seals? that's a common thing to replace during a timing belt job, but once it's apart, it takes five minutes to time it up with a belt on there and start it to see if it runs. They don;t need to put it back together to do that. thirty seconds takes the belt back off to do the cam seals.