BE suspension upgrade

[rclsubaru]

So i recieved my taxes back earlier this week and think im going to put some of the money in the Leggy. Heres my questions:

The H&R sport springs, should i get new struts (i have 9 yr old stockers that dont feel too worn but high miles-120k) or should i just put the springs on my existing setup?

And i am quite interested in a swaybar, and i think i may get the one from rallitek. BUT spring/summer is not too far ahead and will the swaybar mean no more off road driving?

Also id like to know what any of you BE guys are running for your suspension and how you like it, not looking to go coilovers just yet, but would appreciate some decent spring/strut suggestions.

btw i have a 2000 GT Limited, thanks!

[KAG]

First off, welcome!

H&R sport springs paired with KYB GR-2 struts is the most popular spring and strut combo among 3rd generation Legacy owners. Search the Member's Ride 1 section for pictures/reviews and I believe there's a DIY for installing this setup in the DIY forum. This setup would run you +/- $500 and you'd need Impreza spring perches for the springs, which aren't all that expensive.

Your other options for struts are pretty limited as KYB doesn't make the AGX series for our cars. Bilstein has the Heavy Duty struts but brand new they cost $700 and I'm not sure exactly what your budget is. You can try to find some JDM Bilstein's from overseas, but you'd have to either have someone import them for you or find an importer who already has them and is willing to sell them. As far as springs go...the only other ones I know of besides the H&R's are Whiteline control springs, Whiteline flatout springs, STi pink springs, and RS-R sport springs which are another oversea item.

Coilovers are pretty much the only next step if you want adjustability. I think there was a thread a while ago that discussed all the different brands of coilovers out there for the BE/BH, a quick search will bring it to you.

I just recently installed my 20mm adjustable Whiteline rear sway bar and it made an enormous difference in cornering ability. Understeer is virtually gone as well as body roll. A bigger rear sway bar doesn't have to mean no off-road driving, it's just not ideal. If it concerns you when you want to go out and have a little fun, go ahead and remove it. Just as an FYI, Rougeben83 has shown us lots of pictures (we'll call it proof :smt002 ) of him doing some serious rallying in his swapped BE. IIRC, he has 22mm sway bars front and rear.

Have fun and let us know what you decide.

[rclsubaru]

Awesome, thank you for the reply! I have seen the GR-2 and H&R set up quite a bit digging through the Rides forum. I think i will go ahead and order a swaybar and wait a little bit longer for the suspension until i can buy both the springs and struts at the same time. But i am pretty set on that combination.

Anyways, you said your bar was a 20mm, the rallitek one is 22mm. Does this 2mm really make a difference?? (is one better or just a different design)

Thanks again for the help!

[GTBGUY]

rclsubaru: you may want to also check out the iON Performance Sport Spec springs for your car. It will leave you with more ground clearance then the H&R's. They're also designed to the chassis/tranny/engine combination you have. Their email address is info@ionperformance.com

[sansMYSTi]

If you are putting on new springs, you might as well get some new struts also, to save yourself some time/money as you would most likely need to replace the struts relatively soon anyway.

I like my H&R sport springs - with the 1"1/4 drop in the front and 1"1/3 in the rear they give the car just the right stance.

I am very much liking the JDM Bilstein struts in combo with the H&R's as they are firm but not harsh - I would recommend them. Kevin at 5 Mile Imports has a set of these for the BE, though they are listed as "sales pending" (not sure if they are sold yet or not. Link below...

http://forum.subaruclub.ca/viewtopic...=asc&start=315

I would also suggest a larger rear bar - makes a huge difference in the wagon, but I am sure it makes quite a difference in the sedan also. My whiteline adjustable works quite well, even though I have never adjusted from loosest setting. You could also go with a rear swaybar endlink upgrade, which I did, but unless they are well lubed and kept well lubed, they will squeek like a bitch and wear out quickly (that is why I went back to stock).

Good luck and I hope you find something that works well for you.

[rclsubaru]

rclsubaru: you may want to also check out the iON Performance Sport Spec springs for your car. It will leave you with more ground clearance then the H&R's. They're also designed to the chassis/tranny/engine combination you have. Their email address is info@ionperformance.com

I e-mailed them to see what they could give me for a price, I dont believe I have heard of these springs but if you know of a review or have them yourself and care to comment on them, always welcome.

If you are putting on new springs, you might as well get some new struts also, to save yourself some time/money as you would most likely need to replace the struts relatively soon anyway.

I like my H&R sport springs - with the 1"1/4 drop in the front and 1"1/3 in the rear they give the car just the right stance.

I am very much liking the JDM Bilstein struts in combo with the H&R's as they are firm but not harsh - I would recommend them. Kevin at 5 Mile Imports has a set of these for the BE, though they are listed as "sales pending" (not sure if they are sold yet or not. Link below...

http://forum.subaruclub.ca/viewtopic...=asc&start=315

I would also suggest a larger rear bar - makes a huge difference in the wagon, but I am sure it makes quite a difference in the sedan also. My whiteline adjustable works quite well, even though I have never adjusted from loosest setting. You could also go with a rear swaybar endlink upgrade, which I did, but unless they are well lubed and kept well lubed, they will squeek like a bitch and wear out quickly (that is why I went back to stock).

Good luck and I hope you find something that works well for you.

Okay cool I have been on his website before trying to snag some JDM taillights, but was unsuccessful anyways Im going to shoot him an e-mail and see whats up with those Bilstiens, thanks for the heads up! The swaybar I am looking at seems big enough, so I think I will go with that.

Also, are motor, tranny, and pitch mounts worth it? They sound interesting and I feel like I would like the NHV more than hate it. Anyways thanks guys.

[GTBGUY]

rclsubaru: I've personally had first hand experience with the iON's as well as H&R, Prodrive, Whiteline, Eibach and STi. I would say hands down if you're looking for the best performance & overall usability without sacrificing comfort the iON's are the way to go. Of the 9 current Subarus we've got in the family right now 8 of the 9 are running iON Springs; only my Outback STi is on Cusco Coilovers for track; if I didn't need the dampening & rebound adjustments for track I would be using iON Springs with Koni's or Bilsteins on my ride. I've had 7 previous Subarus, and all of them I had ended up switching to iON springs in the end. They aren't cheap, but they're worth their weight in gold.

Here's are a few reviews on NASIOC ->
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=750470

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=772720


As for the Group N engine + pitch + tranny, they're well worth it; however if you have an auto tranny there's no tranny mount available. The pitch mount is optional, as that transfers the most NVH into the cabin.

[KAG]

DOH! I forgot about the iON performance springs. I've heard nothing but good things about these springs...and GTBGUY's post makes me want to get a set myself for the BE

I sent Jack @ iON an e-mail not too long ago. He called me back, asked me a few questions and told me that directly from him it would be $418 shipped to my door. He then informed me I could get a much better price if I were to join a group buy on legacygt.com though.

I honestly don't think that's a bad price for springs that aren't high in demand, are made SPECIFICALLY for the vehicle you're purchasing them for (all the way down to which transmission you have) and I have confidence that the customer service would be excellent. You can also use the stock spring perches for these which would save a few bucks and a boring trip to the dealer

...and yeah, regarding the mounts - I replaced my transmission and pitch stop not too long ago. Pitch stop to me didn't do much of anything and added noise, so I got rid of it. The tranny mount, however, made a great improvement in shifting and felt like it held the torque a lot better in higher rpms.

[rclsubaru]

rclsubaru: I've personally had first hand experience with the iON's as well as H&R, Prodrive, Whiteline, Eibach and STi. I would say hands down if you're looking for the best performance & overall usability without sacrificing comfort the iON's are the way to go. Of the 9 current Subarus we've got in the family right now 8 of the 9 are running iON Springs; only my Outback STi is on Cusco Coilovers for track; if I didn't need the dampening & rebound adjustments for track I would be using iON Springs with Koni's or Bilsteins on my ride. I've had 7 previous Subarus, and all of them I had ended up switching to iON springs in the end. They aren't cheap, but they're worth their weight in gold.

E-mail I recieved a half-hour after I sent it

Hi Ross, thanks for your interest & inquiry. We design our springs for
North American roads & conditions, and are specifically made to each
engine/chassis/tranny combination. Since you have a BE (Sedan), which
tranny do you have? The 4EAT or the 5MT? Do you have the factory EJ253
SOHC engine?.

As for pricing, since you're part of SLi.net we can provide you the member
discount. Our Springs MSRP for $599US + shipping, as a forum member
you're entitled to the member discounted price of $399US + shipping.

Our springs lower the car by 1.18" & 1" respectively (F/R - 30mm/25mm).
Our springs are also progressive and make the car handle much more
neutral. We do have a rear HD option to provide more power off oversteer,
however we only recommend that combintion for those who track their car
alot.

If you have any further questions, feel free to ask.

Best Regards,

Jack


Ouu a discount? I am pretty much sold on these springs and yes I like the fact that the stock perches are used, so much more convenient and practical! If those Bilstiens from 5 Mile are still available then I think I will snag those and wait a bit until the Subie fund recovers, then finish it off with the iONs Does anyone have any updated pics of the stance of the car with these springs on? None of the Naisoc pics are showing up on my comp. (maybe thats my problem though )

...and yeah, regarding the mounts - I replaced my transmission and pitch stop not too long ago. Pitch stop to me didn't do much of anything and added noise, so I got rid of it. The tranny mount, however, made a great improvement in shifting and felt like it held the torque a lot better in higher rpms.

The tranny mount sounds like its the best value, my short shifter decreased the shift somewhat but I would love for it to have a more crisper, solid feel. And the pitch mount, if theres just an increase in NVH then whats its purpose?

On the distant other hand, with these at ~$400 and the Bilstiens at say ~$500(?) or so, should i bite the bullet and buy some coilovers? Or do these bad boys really put the $1000+ coilovers to shame? I was digging around and the BC Racing Coilovers seem pretty nice. Whats your guys' opinions??

[GTBGUY]

rclsubaru: I'm sure the guys at iON have pictures available. You should drop them another email about that.

As for coil-overs, a good set of springs & struts will easily out perform coil-overs. Like I had mentioned, if it weren't for the fact I required the dampening & rebound adjustments of the Cusco Comp Zero-2 coilovers, I would be rocking the iON springs with Koni's or Bilstien's. Even on the softest setting the Cuscos are "bone jarring" on rough surfaces. Coil-overs also require more attention/maintanence.

If you don't need adjustability, you're wasting your money with the coilovers.

[rclsubaru]

rclsubaru: I'm sure the guys at iON have pictures available. You should drop them another email about that.

As for coil-overs, a good set of springs & struts will easily out perform coil-overs. Like I had mentioned, if it weren't for the fact I required the dampening & rebound adjustments of the Cusco Comp Zero-2 coilovers, I would be rocking the iON springs with Koni's or Bilstien's. Even on the softest setting the Cuscos are "bone jarring" on rough surfaces. Coil-overs also require more attention/maintanence.

If you don't need adjustability, you're wasting your money with the coilovers.

Okay cool, looks like im sticking to the springs then. I sent another e-mail, so shouldnt be too long till i get one back.

Thanks again for all the help, will keep you guys updated on what goes down.

[sansMYSTi]

rclsubaru: you may want to also check out the iON Performance Sport Spec springs for your car. It will leave you with more ground clearance then the H&R's. They're also designed to the chassis/tranny/engine combination you have. Their email address is info@ionperformance.com

I e-mailed them to see what they could give me for a price, I dont believe I have heard of these springs but if you know of a review or have them yourself and care to comment on them, always welcome.

If you are putting on new springs, you might as well get some new struts also, to save yourself some time/money as you would most likely need to replace the struts relatively soon anyway.

I like my H&R sport springs - with the 1"1/4 drop in the front and 1"1/3 in the rear they give the car just the right stance.

I am very much liking the JDM Bilstein struts in combo with the H&R's as they are firm but not harsh - I would recommend them. Kevin at 5 Mile Imports has a set of these for the BE, though they are listed as "sales pending" (not sure if they are sold yet or not. Link below...

http://forum.subaruclub.ca/viewtopic...=asc&start=315

I would also suggest a larger rear bar - makes a huge difference in the wagon, but I am sure it makes quite a difference in the sedan also. My whiteline adjustable works quite well, even though I have never adjusted from loosest setting. You could also go with a rear swaybar endlink upgrade, which I did, but unless they are well lubed and kept well lubed, they will squeek like a bitch and wear out quickly (that is why I went back to stock).

Good luck and I hope you find something that works well for you.

Okay cool I have been on his website before trying to snag some JDM taillights, but was unsuccessful anyways Im going to shoot him an e-mail and see whats up with those Bilstiens, thanks for the heads up! The swaybar I am looking at seems big enough, so I think I will go with that.

Also, are motor, tranny, and pitch mounts worth it? They sound interesting and I feel like I would like the NHV more than hate it. Anyways thanks guys.

I have an aftermarket tranny mount, and I find it did make the shift and power application much more crisp - the car felt more responsive. I may also give the motor mounts and pitch stop a try also. Keep in mind that changing these often puts more vibration/noise into the car - my tranny mount wasn't too bad, but I have heard the motor mounts are worse.

[TheAngryPidgeon]

I have an aftermarket tranny mount, and I find it did make the shift and power application much more crisp - the car felt more responsive. I may also give the motor mounts and pitch stop a try also. Keep in mind that changing these often puts more vibration/noise into the car - my tranny mount wasn't too bad, but I have heard the motor mounts are worse.

I did all of the above. The engine noise is definitely more noticeable, but it is in a "Ohh, my engine sounds like it has been bodybuilding" rather than a "I would love to think, but my engine is so loud that all I can hear is 1-3-2-4, 1-3-2-4"

I am in no way disappointed in my purchase and installation of STi Group-N mounts.

[hellaGT]

I just emailed ION about springs for my BD. I had just saved up for a suspension upgrade to replace my 10 yr old 153,000 mile stockers...
Sounds like the KYB GR-2s and these springs are a good combo.

[rougeben83]

what are struts are you using with the ion springs? You do realize if you buy bilsteins (like that 5mile import set) they come with b4 springs, right? They lower about 10-15mm and are progressively stiffer than any of the USDM models. If thats what youre looking for, I would suggest trying those first.

Oh yeah, I've gone through 3 different pitchstops, the aftermarket ones just gave me more noise. Just get a Group N one and spend the $50 difference towards upgraded engine and transmission mounts.

[hellaGT]

Got the email and... so far great customer service!

"Hi Trevor, thanks for your email and inquiry. Yes we do manufacture
springs for the BD chassis. Attached is a picture of a BD w/ KYB GR2's.
Note the picture of the BK wagon is for reference between stock suspension
and our Sport Spec springs on KYB GR2's.

Our springs for the BD chassis lower 30mm/25mm (1.18"/1") Front/Rear
respectively. They're fully progressive and provide a supple ride while
maximizing the handling characteristics of the car. We do also offer a HD
option for the rears which are designed for those who constantly have a
heavy load in the trunk or for those who want more oversteer then our
Sport Specs.

The member discounted price on our springs is $399US + shipping (MSRP is
$599US + shipping). There is no price difference to go with the HD rear
option.

There was another SLi member who contacted us with a BE, as we had
mentioned to them, if there's enough interest we can host a Group Buy for
further discounts.

If you have any further questions, feel free to ask.

Best Regards,

Jack

"If there's enough interest we can host a Group Buy for further discounts." anyone else? :smt026

Before / After pic

[KAG]

I'd be in for a group buy. I was planning on joining the last one that just ended on legacygt.com but my trip to the dealership killed me.

[hellaGT]

I'm not totally ready for the purchase but will be soon so I can wait as long as it takes.
So potentially 3 so far?
1.rclsubaru
2.Hella GT
3.KAG

[hellaGT]

Bump

[rclsubaru]

I'm not totally ready for the purchase but will be soon so I can wait as long as it takes.
So potentially 3 so far?
1.rclsubaru
2.Hella GT
3.KAG

Definatly down for that, this is a part of what Jack had sent me:

...Alternatively, if you'd like to start a GB on
SLi.net we would be open to that idea. The discounts would be as such:

5 participants = -$25 off member discounted prices (ie: $374US + shipping)
10 participants = -$50 off member discounted prices (ie: $349US + shipping)
15 participants = -$75 off member discounted prices (ie: $324US + shipping)...


How bout that? I would love to be able to get at least the 10 participants, I'm with hellaGT; not in that much of a rush, and am willing to wait. We will see what happens then, ask around for interests!

[TheAngryPidgeon]

I would like to get in on this, however, I have to wait. Luckily, financial aid pays out soon, and I will be working a lot more next quarter, so it shouldn't be too long.

Put me down tentatively, and I'll let you know where I stand once this comes closer to going through.

Thanks,

Phil

[rclsubaru]

I would like to get in on this, however, I have to wait. Luckily, financial aid pays out soon, and I will be working a lot more next quarter, so it shouldn't be too long.

Put me down tentatively, and I'll let you know where I stand once this comes closer to going through.

Thanks,

Phil

Okay cool, we have a probable number 4.

1.rclsubaru
2.Hella GT
3.KAG
4.**TheAngryPidgeon
5._________
-$25 off member discounted prices (ie: $374US + shipping)

Should be able to reach this goal.

[hellaGT]

Phil, you should do what you did to recruit the NorCal meet and lets make it 10.

[TheAngryPidgeon]

Phil, you should do what you did to recruit the NorCal meet and lets make it 10.

Will do, depending on how these papers come along over the next week or so. I'll keep you posted.

[rougeben83]

Maybe you guys should contact Reason and he'll get a general gb/interest thread going so other guys can get on this.

[TheAngryPidgeon]

Maybe you guys should contact Reason and he'll get a general gb/interest thread going so other guys can get on this.

PM'd him. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Markus]

Kind of jumping back a bit (sorry don't get to come on here as much as I'd like)....a whole bunch of random thoughts....I own an '03 Leggy GT with about 60k miles on stock suspension so I'm considering some upgrades as well.

1) Shocks/springs v. springs only - I got a deal on some used Whiteline springs and was going to just slap them on right away. But it's a pretty involved process (heard about 1.5-2hrs for a first timer or $175 thru a local shop). The thing is, it doesn't take that much longer (or that much more $$) to install shocks as well. So - if you're going to do one, might as well do both...

2) Aftermarket springs with stock shocks - Once again "from what I've heard" most of the aftermarket springs will still ride ok with stock shocks, but they will wear out the stock shocks more quickly. This might not be a big deal if you had 30k miles and just wanted to lower the car for looks. But since the BE's are all 5+ years old by now, probably makes sense to just replace the shocks too.

3) KYB's - I have seen various numbers thrown around for the KYB's, from like 10% stiffer than stock to 20% stiffer. If I didn't care about handling and just wanted an OEM-equivalent shock I would buy these with no reservations - price can't be beat and quality is supposed to be pretty good. But if you're asking about rear sways also and do want to improve handling, you probably should go with something stiffer.

4) Bilsteins - Most of the used JDM import sets I've seen have gone for $500-$600 vs buying the Bilstein Heavy Duty's brand new for $700. Not sure if it's worth saving $150-$200 to go used. Someone mentioned though that the JDM sets thru filemileimport include springs, if that's the case you might be able to sell those springs used and get some cash back for purchasing other springs.

5) Shocks/springs v. coilovers - I've added it up too, and used springs plus JDM shocks does start getting to the point where I want to just say f-it and order coilovers. I wouldn't say one setup is necessarily better than the other, the coilovers just offer alot more in terms of adjustability - ride height adjustability, ability to customize spring rates, etc. But if you're not going to seriously track or autox the car it also adds another area of complexity. I have enough complexity with my track Miata already!

I hope some of that helps...to the original poster, if you don't go with the fivemile JDM Bilsteins maybe PM me the quoted price...temptations...

- Mark

[hellaGT]

Maybe you guys should contact Reason and he'll get a general gb/interest thread going so other guys can get on this.

Totally forgot about that... thanks

[hellaGT]

These are the spring rates for the BD only, just for reference.

"Hi Trevor, the following are the rates for a 5MT, EJ25 equipped BD Legacy
Sedan:

F/R:

237F/217R #/in @ 1"
286F/274R #/in @ 2"

Please note that spring rates are specific to engine/tranny/chassis type.

Rates for the BG/BK as well as the BE/BH chassis are different as well
based on engine/tranny/chassis

Best Regards,

Jack"

[rclsubaru]

Kind of jumping back a bit (sorry don't get to come on here as much as I'd like)....a whole bunch of random thoughts....I own an '03 Leggy GT with about 60k miles on stock suspension so I'm considering some upgrades as well.

1) Shocks/springs v. springs only - I got a deal on some used Whiteline springs and was going to just slap them on right away. But it's a pretty involved process (heard about 1.5-2hrs for a first timer or $175 thru a local shop). The thing is, it doesn't take that much longer (or that much more $$) to install shocks as well. So - if you're going to do one, might as well do both...

2) Aftermarket springs with stock shocks - Once again "from what I've heard" most of the aftermarket springs will still ride ok with stock shocks, but they will wear out the stock shocks more quickly. This might not be a big deal if you had 30k miles and just wanted to lower the car for looks. But since the BE's are all 5+ years old by now, probably makes sense to just replace the shocks too.

3) KYB's - I have seen various numbers thrown around for the KYB's, from like 10% stiffer than stock to 20% stiffer. If I didn't care about handling and just wanted an OEM-equivalent shock I would buy these with no reservations - price can't be beat and quality is supposed to be pretty good. But if you're asking about rear sways also and do want to improve handling, you probably should go with something stiffer.

4) Bilsteins - Most of the used JDM import sets I've seen have gone for $500-$600 vs buying the Bilstein Heavy Duty's brand new for $700. Not sure if it's worth saving $150-$200 to go used. Someone mentioned though that the JDM sets thru filemileimport include springs, if that's the case you might be able to sell those springs used and get some cash back for purchasing other springs.

5) Shocks/springs v. coilovers - I've added it up too, and used springs plus JDM shocks does start getting to the point where I want to just say f-it and order coilovers. I wouldn't say one setup is necessarily better than the other, the coilovers just offer alot more in terms of adjustability - ride height adjustability, ability to customize spring rates, etc. But if you're not going to seriously track or autox the car it also adds another area of complexity. I have enough complexity with my track Miata already!

I hope some of that helps...to the original poster, if you don't go with the fivemile JDM Bilsteins maybe PM me the quoted price...temptations...

- Mark

Thanks for that post, and yeah I do want to go a bit more stiffer than having to buy new shocks just to get a 10% increase in stiffness, yet im sure with my ~120k mile old set-up there would be a definate noticible increase.

And the JDM Bilsteins from 5mile were actually sold. I asked for a heads-up though if they receive another set

Thanks again sir