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Thread: My supercharger build: Update 7/5/2010 Emanage!

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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/10/09

    Quote Originally Posted by hink01wag
    thanks for the help with the smt6. i for got the 330om resistor. now it runs like a champ. so i talked to the guy at RalliTek and he said that they have a map on their web site that is a really good starting point for the SC. i think im going to go to a tune shop once i get mine installed and have them work with it on the dyno. did you have any plans like that? i know my setup is way different than yours but its the same SC. so do you have a plan for mapping your smt6?
    I hope to eventually get a professional tune done on the car once everything on the mechanical side is taken care of. Until then my basic plan, at the recommendation of Skidd on RS2.5, is to pull back 1 degree of timing for every 1psi of boost, possibly more on the top end of the rpm spectrum just to be safe. Also I will richen the map on boost, tapering up as I go, to keep my AFR's at 10.5 - 11 : 1. To do this I will need a wideband setup, and I am pretty set on an Innovative LC-1. It has programmable narrowband outputs to keep the ECU happy, and has data logging capability.

    So basic formula for safe tune until I can get a professional tune is:

    1) Rich on boost
    2) Pull back timing
    3) Run high octane gas

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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/20/09

    Finished up the bottom bracket today; its pretty sturdy and I can't move it without moving the whole engine. I also made the first of two top brackets. I plan on making another plate that will brace the two supercharger holes closest to the manifold to the manifold itself and the PS pump flange thing.

    I also found another PS pulley at a U pull it and threw that on just for experimentation purposes. I'm thinking about just having them welded together, then drill out the center of the second one so the bolt will fit. This will be temporary, of course. Eventually a really stepper pulley will need to get machined.





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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/20/09

    Amazing!! you should be really proud of yourself, this is coming along great!
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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/20/09

    This link might be of use to you:
    http://www.rs25.com/forums/f145/t109647 ... dness.html
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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/20/09

    wow, this looks great, but i' be worried to run a belt around a rad hose like that, and ps pump pulley isnt really that big to give your sc good spin. i know its harder done than said but is there way to fab another belt coming off your crank pulley with maybe a few idler pulleys guiding it up?
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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/20/09

    Maybe he could fab up a 2-peice shield to go around the rad hose, and if he got a lightweight pulley for the PS, crank and alternator that should take the load off the S/C pulley?
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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/20/09

    Quote Originally Posted by Huffer
    Maybe he could fab up a 2-peice shield to go around the rad hose, and if he got a lightweight pulley for the PS, crank and alternator that should take the load off the S/C pulley?
    I got those light weight pulleys
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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/20/09

    I've already got a lightweight crank pulley, and the radiator fan sticks out too far to allow a pulley with a third spline set to be added. As for the size of the PS pulley, yes it is too small to achieve 5 psi, but I don't want to fire it up for the first time with full boost and blow the motor. I figure I'll start small with 2-3 psi, figure out the tune, then move bigger. A new pulley is a lot cheaper than a new set of pistons

    Yes, I'll be looking into ways to protect the rad hose from both heat and the possibility of a belt hitting it. I'll be implementing an tensioner pulley where that aluminum brace goes on the top, but I first need to re-make it out of stronger steel so it can take the load. As we speak I'm finishing up the actual mounting of the SC. Pics later today.

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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/20/09

    Did some more bracket making today using 3/16" aluminum riveted together at the center. The SC is now bolted down as well. I also added another 1/4" plate on top of the existing plate where the 2 SC bolts onto the main plate. The whole setup seems rock solid, and any force exerted on the whole thing actually moves the whole engine. That said, I'll still need to make the front top angle bracket out of steel so it can take the force of the tensioner pulley that will go there.



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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/20/09

    Can i ask why your not going with the same bracket set up as the ludicrous speed guy?
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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/20/09

    Skidd's car is a Phase II SOHC, and therefore the heads are totally different and the brackets wouldn't has even come close to fitting. Plus, the timing belt cover on my DOHC perfectly interferes with where the belt would run in Skidd's setup.

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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/20/09

    The power steering pulley is being welded and machined as we speak, hopefully I'll have pics later today!

    Also, my Innovative LC-1 Wideband setup is on its way; still deciding whether to mount the sensor in the stock rear O2 location or to get another bung welded in.

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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/20/09

    looks very promising so far.

    i'm concerned that you are going to experience belt slippage, though. the stock layout for the alt/power steering belt isn't designed for that much load. that is shown by the fact that the belt only contacts about half of the crank pulley. but, where i think it is most likely going to slip is right on the powersteering pulley. there is only a couple inches of contact on the p/s pulley, and superchargers take a lot of power to spin. trying to tighten down the belt to keep it from slipping will put a tremendous load on the bearings in the alternator, power steering pump and engine, causing premature failure. same thing with the belt itself.

    i'm not sure how feasible it would be, but you might try to fashion an idler pulley between the power steering pump and the crank pulley to get more contact on the crank and p/s pulleys and just use a longer belt.

    you might end up with the same problem on the s/c belt itself. i'd try to mount the tensioner pulley as close to the s/c as you can to help get more belt contact on the s/c.

    also, are you going to keep the clutch function of the s/c

    with the wbo2, i'd mount it where the front o2 sensor goes. wbo2 sensors come with controllers mainly for the heater, but they also usually have the option to output a signal that mimicks a narrow band o2 sensor. you could wire that into the stock o2 sensor wiring to keep the stock pcm happy, but put the wb02 sensor close enough to the engine that it is actually effective. putting the wbo2 where the rear 02 goes is so far from the engine that it isn't going to be accurate and it will likely be sluggish at idle because there won't be enough heat. also, hopefully this is obvious, but if you still plan on running cats, you absolutely cannot mount the wbo2 back there.
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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/20/09

    Quote Originally Posted by ouch1011
    looks very promising so far.

    i'm concerned that you are going to experience belt slippage, though. the stock layout for the alt/power steering belt isn't designed for that much load. that is shown by the fact that the belt only contacts about half of the crank pulley. but, where i think it is most likely going to slip is right on the powersteering pulley. there is only a couple inches of contact on the p/s pulley, and superchargers take a lot of power to spin. trying to tighten down the belt to keep it from slipping will put a tremendous load on the bearings in the alternator, power steering pump and engine, causing premature failure. same thing with the belt itself.

    i'm not sure how feasible it would be, but you might try to fashion an idler pulley between the power steering pump and the crank pulley to get more contact on the crank and p/s pulleys and just use a longer belt.

    you might end up with the same problem on the s/c belt itself. i'd try to mount the tensioner pulley as close to the s/c as you can to help get more belt contact on the s/c.

    also, are you going to keep the clutch function of the s/c

    with the wbo2, i'd mount it where the front o2 sensor goes. wbo2 sensors come with controllers mainly for the heater, but they also usually have the option to output a signal that mimicks a narrow band o2 sensor. you could wire that into the stock o2 sensor wiring to keep the stock pcm happy, but put the wb02 sensor close enough to the engine that it is actually effective. putting the wbo2 where the rear 02 goes is so far from the engine that it isn't going to be accurate and it will likely be sluggish at idle because there won't be enough heat.
    Thanks for the input; this is something I hadn't considered yet. Initially the supercharger will be spinning at 9000 rpm with the double power steering pulley, and at that rpm, the SC should be using about 7hp, or roughly the same as the air conditioner compressor. I don't think this load should cause problems with belt slippage, but when I move to using the alternator stepper pulley for higher boost, It sounds like I'll need more belt wrap. I suppose I could add an idler pulley between the PS pulley and alternator so the belt loops down then up, thus giving the alternator and PS pulleys about 45 degrees more wrap. And for the supercharger pulley, I actually already have a bracket made for an idler pulley that goes down by the PS pulley.

    Yes, I really like the electric clutch and I want to keep it since It allows the car basically to go back to stock with the flip of a switch, or in my case, the programmable switch from the Perfect Power 6, alongside a manual override switch.

    I'm giving this a 60% chance of getting this think spinning under its own power this week. I just have to go pick up the double pulley, drain some coolant to get the crossover pipe off, put the belt past the pipe, bolt in the idler pulley, and tension it! Also, I just ordered most of the stuff I'll need to do the piping.

    Concerning BOV's: Skidd on RS2.5 was using the same BOV I have; a 1" diameter bosch unit, and he reports that it can't relieve pressure fast enough and has had couplers popping off and the like. My plan is to use an additional BOV along the pipe that goes from the SC to the intercooler. Unlike a turbo, the SC still produces boost when you let off the gas at a high rpm, so I must either use 2 BOV's or use the PP6's programming to turn off the electric clutch when the throttle is closed.

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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/29/09

    IT WORKS!

    Today I picked up the double power steering pulley from the machine shop. Basically they welded them together then cut out the spine piece on the outer pulley so a 19mm socket will fit. Its installation involved removing the A/C fan, which I was able to bend just enough to allow 1/4" of clearance.

    Then after three trips to the auto parts store for the right sized belt, I had to drain a little bit of coolant so when I removed the main coolant pipe it wouldn't spill coolant all over the place. Then I added washers under the angle piece holding the idler/tensioner to tighten the belt, and some quick wires to power the clutch from inside the car... And I started the car with the clutch off to begin with. Then I held my breath and hit the switch. It spun up and started humming happily there, blowing out a surprising amount of air.

    This video is the first startup of the SC via the switch.



    I also took a quick spin around the neighborhood and I can say it sounds amazing!

    *Excuse my dirty engine bay*


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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/29/09

    nice!! cant wait to see this completed!!!

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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/29/09

    that vid makes that thing sounds like an indy car! sweet!
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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/29/09

    thats pretty cool man, dont forget to add coolant back to normal level before you go beating down on it.
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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/29/09



    - Roger - Site Admin
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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/29/09

    awesome man! cant wait to see this thing finished and a video of it driving!
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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/29/09

    Haha, thanks guys. In the vid, I only revd it up to about 2500 rpm, and it gets about twice as loud by 4000 rpm. Even without the actual piping done, I can still have some fun turning heads.

    Other than that, all that's left is the Intake piping, pressure piping, and BOV.

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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/29/09

    Damn, that sounds good! Kind of weird to hear an EJ25 that sounds like that, but it sounds good!
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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/29/09

    So how much is all of this going to end up costing you? It looks pretty straight-forward from your progress. I can see others following your lead if things all pan out. If you put together a formal writeup, you might have the coolest DIY on SLi.
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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/29/09

    Quote Originally Posted by rudgers73
    So how much is all of this going to end up costing you? It looks pretty straight-forward from your progress. I can see others following your lead if things all pan out. If you put together a formal writeup, you might have the coolest DIY on SLi.
    My goal is to keep all costs below $1000, and so far, I'm at about $700, so its looking good, and all I have left to buy is piping and another BOV. This project has been mostly standing in front of the engine looking at things and thinking "well that might fit there, but I'll have to move this...". I did try to make some actual plans for my mounting brackets, but it ended up that I was grinding a little off here and there to make at all fit. I do have to say that its super nice not having to take the car out of service during work. When I was doing the mounting work, I could just leave the plates and stuff bolted down while I went about daily business. More recently, I have moved the intake back so I don't even have to take the intake apart to work on it!

    For the final install, I want to set apart a day to tear everything down, take measurements, and make diagrams for the pieces so others can duplicate them. Even then, every build will have its own unique challenges and surprises. If you have basic knowledge of metalwork and know how to use powertools, you can do a project like this. I'm just an 18 year old kid with mostly woodworking tools to use, so if I can do it, anyone can.

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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/29/09

    that = the shit.

    where did you get the SC?

    what is it called? model?

    and why did you pick that one?

    im a total forced induction uber-noob
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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/29/09

    Quote Originally Posted by green97gt
    that = the shit.

    where did you get the SC?

    what is it called? model?

    and why did you pick that one?

    im a total forced induction uber-noob
    Its an Eaton M62 from at 2001 Mercedes C230, and I got it off ebay. Check the OP for more details on parts I used.

    This is a supercharger that is fairly easy to find on ebay, it is small in size, and it produces the CFM (cubic feet per minute) I need at a reasonable RPM. The M45 is smaller but to produce my target of 330 cfm, it would have to spin at 14k rpm, and the M90 is just to big to fit in the engine bay. I looked at other superchargers, but they were all either too big, or too expensive.

  27. #87
    t3h ub3r m3mber
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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/29/09

    lol that is awesome.

    I'm suprised the s/c only draws that much power, I would have expected much more. Producing 330cfm is no small feat. I guess we'll see what happens when it ends up producing actual pressure. I've got my fingers crossed for you.
    Kevin B.
    06 Subaru Legacy 2.5GT-Brilliant Silver Metallic
    98 Subaru Legacy 2.5GT-Black Granite Pearl
    <- Turn signals, people! Use them! ->

  28. #88
    SLi O.G. anothernord's Avatar
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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/29/09

    Got an exhaust shop to weld in a bung for my Innovative LC-1 wideband setup. They did a great job for only $15.

    More bits came in the mail as well, including a couple piping bits from ebay, a flexible intake hose, and a whole bunch of silicone couplers from siliconintakes.com. I literally ordered the couplers last night, and they came today. I suppose it helps that they are manufactured about 80 miles south of here.

  29. #89
    t3h ub3r m3mber 2.5GT's Avatar
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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/29/09

    Congrats! hard work has paid off..

    I want to do this now, seriously.

  30. #90
    SLi O.G. anothernord's Avatar
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    Re: My supercharger build: Update 7/29/09

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.5GT
    Congrats! hard work has paid off..

    I want to do this now, seriously.
    Do it! Make it your fall project!

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