Thinking about a Legacy

[Grind]

Hi, I'm Paul, and I'm probably going to replace my '03 MINI Cooper S with a *third* gen Legacy, this Spring. I'm here to learn more, like the differences between the models - mainly Outback vs GT - for starters.

I had a '78 Subaru AWD (it was optional back then) Wagon, 25 years ago, and loved it, in the short time I had it.

Currently, my daughter has an '03 Forester with 259k miles on it. She got it from friends of my parents, when she started driving.

In the future, Mom is thinking about getting a Tribeca, when the lease is up on her Cad CTS4.

EDIT: I meant third gen, doh! See how confoozed I am? :oops:

[harrymaneuvers]

Main differences between the models assuming you are looking at all 4th gen would mainly be the ride height. I believe the outback has the most ground clearance followed by the base model with the GT's being the lowest.

There are a few engine options. Base model is an EJ253 SOHC as are all of the outbacks unless it is a 3.0R. Then you have the GT which is a TURBO EJ255... lots of umph there... more than you would normally need.

Then there is the 3.0R which is a horizontally opposed 6 cylinder. I have no insight on this motor but assume it has plenty of low end.

I personally LOVE the looks of the 4th gen outback SEDAN... which rides nice and high.

Here is a photo of the 3.0R outback sedan, 2005:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/02/38957942-1.jpg


You will also find that the cold weather options like heated seats, windshield, mirrors ect are easily found on the outback while it would be more rare on a base model. Same with the GT and things like Navigation, leather ect.


Other than that... all 4th gens are going to be pretty much the same layout with differences in the options mentioned above.

Oh and I am pretty sure you cannot get a base model legacy or GT (either sedan or wagon) in a two toned exterior color... I am pretty sure you have to look at an outback for that but strangely you can get an outback with single color tone.

[amgarrety]

You will also find that the cold weather options like heated seats, windshield, mirrors ect are easily found on the outback while it would be more rare on a base model. Same with the GT and things like Navigation, leather ect.

I just want to clear up that the reason it is harder to find these options on the base model is because they were offered as options, where as the GT and Outback got most of that stuff standard. There are a few notable exceptions, such as base models with, for example, the "winter package", which combines a bunch of cold-weather options that would otherwise be separate. In my experience, any 3.0R legacy will normally have all the bells and whistles. Not all GTs will have navigation, as I think that was a later option ('08 and '09).



Other than that... all 4th gens are going to be pretty much the same layout with differences in the options mentioned above.

Oh and I am pretty sure you cannot get a base model legacy or GT (either sedan or wagon) in a two toned exterior color... I am pretty sure you have to look at an outback for that but strangely you can get an outback with single color tone.

I believe they stopped the two tone thing for sedans with the introduction of the 4th generation in '05. Then I think they killed two tone on the wagon around '07, and killed the outback sedan around that time too. That might have even ceased in '06. I'm not really clear.

[Grind]

OOPS, I meant third gen. 2000-2003, right?

[harrymaneuvers]

^Good addition!!!!


If it were up to me... I would love to find the above mentioned outback sedan with 3.0R or a legacy GT wagon with black interior.

Oh yeah... forgot to mention that you can also get the outback in an XT model which is the same engine as the GT (turbo EJ255). I am not sure if there is a difference in the suspensions between an Outback XT or a legacy GT.

Also, the automatics in the 4th gen are a 5 speed automatic with the manual shifting ability via the + or - on the shift selector.

The rare bird would be the baja... which is technically build on the 3rd gen's chassis but they made them up to 2006. These also came with an option for a EJ255 turbo.

You will find that these also came with the 5 speed automatic but the interior is no where near as updated as the true 4th gen legacies.

Baja interior:

http://pictures.dealer.com/t/tomwoodsubarusoa/1142/253226cf9f4077fd16df1c35e6dfcf29x.jpg

Legacy GT interior:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/02/ag_07legacygt_interior-1.jpg

[harrymaneuvers]

OOPS, I meant third gen. 2000-2003, right?

Oh well that changes things. 3rd gen is 2000-2004


In that case you only have 1 engine option which is a non-turbo EJ251 or EJ253 (small differences).


You have two options for a transmission, a 4 speed automatic or a 5 speed manual.


Past that, you only have the base model (both sedan and wagon), the GT (both sedan and wagon), and the Baja which looks like a 3rd gen legacy from the front doors forward but was actually made from 2004 to 2006 AND came with a turbo option.


Options are all pretty much the same as explained before but no navigation option.

[amgarrety]

OOPS, I meant third gen. 2000-2003, right?

Ahhh now you're speaking my language, I know that generation pretty well. They ran from 2000-2004 here in the US, having a "facelift" in 2003 that just gave it a slightly redesigned bumper with projector fog lights, and some other small stuff like painted trim.

Subaru offered 4 models, excluding the Baja. These were the Legacy sedan, Legacy wagon, Legacy Outback sedan, and Legacy Outback wagon. This was before they broke off the Outback into its own car line. All were available in either 4EAT or 5MT. Let me define the sub-models (L and GT) real quick.

L - Base model legacy with pretty much just the basics, 15" rims until '02, then "16 alloys after. Single bulb headlights.
L SE - Added woodgrain interior, a sunroof (dual sunroofs on the wagon) and leather trim on the steering wheel and shifter. Single bulb headlights.
GT - Added tweeters, upgraded rear differential, sideskirts, leather interior. No real engine differences. Dual bulb headlights.
Outback - Lifted suspension, beefier tires, heated seats, body cladding (2-tone), outback bumper. Dual bulb headlights.

The Legacy sedan will come in L, L SE, or GT. The Legacy wagon will come in L or L SE (I don't believe a GT option was offered for the wagon, though I could be wrong). Outback models only get the Outback trim. The difference between sedan and wagon is just as you'd expect.

Engines came in NA ej251 and NA ej253. No turbo model was available for these years. There was also an H6 version (EZ30) which is just a 6-cylinder, but they normally get every single option available, including some with VDC (vehicle dynamic control), which when paired with AWD is incredible. You'll have a hard time losing traction because it dynamically controls your brakes as you take turns you give you the best control.

Concerning the Baja, they came with NA ej253 or Turbo ej255, but the turbo model only came in automatic (no fun, I know). But the Baja did get a preview of a technology available in all automatic Subarus today: Tiptronic shifting.

If there is anything I missed or got incorrect, feel free to fix it.

[Grind]

I'd be getting a wagon, that much I'm certain; either a GT or an Outback, not an L or L SE. What are the differences in the EJ251 and EJ253? Were heated seats available in the GT? What about cloth + heat? I've seen some ads with "RB Equip". What's that? I've found no answers to that.

You guys have been helpful. Thanks.

[amgarrety]

I'd be getting a wagon, that much I'm certain; either a GT or an Outback, not an L or L SE. What are the differences in the EJ251 and EJ253? Were heated seats available in the GT? What about cloth + heat? I've seen some ads with "RB Equip". What's that? I've found no answers to that.

You guys have been helpful. Thanks.


I'd personally recommend an Outback, but I don't know much about the GT Legacy wagon. I don't believe there are any major differences between the ej251 and ej253, just a redesign. I'm not a motor guy though, so I'm the wrong person to ask. The only way I can tell the difference is the placement of the coil pack.

Yes, as far as I know, GT models do have heated seats. You'll be able to tell if you look beside the ebrake and see the switches there. Otherwise, there will be a coin holder taking up that space. Cloth and heat do exist, I'm pretty sure. I'm not confident on which models got that. That may have been an option.

RB equip is where you lose me. I'll be watching for an answer to that as well :razz:

[Dead91silvia]

Ok, so I'll add a little bit here...

Where are you located???

I had a 2000 GT wagon and I loved it! Drove the piss out of it and the new owner is now on this forum. now I'll correct a little from other post.

My GT was a 5 speed, cloth seats, non-heated mirrors and seats. As far as I know, not one GT got this, unless maybe a "Limited" came with the heated goodies. Had the wood grain and dual sunroofs.

The motors are good, but make sure they always have oil. I got mine from someone that didnt make sure the oil was good. As for the differences in years, I dont think there is enough to base getting one over the other.

I have a 2002 Legacy Outback LL Bean with an H6 6 cylinder. The power is nice, the MPG is not. This car has every option under the sun, other then one, VDC. I like my cars low so I'm not too excited to drive my Outback. This car does have a factory lift and the off road clearance is pretty cool.

When it comes down to it, what do you want it for?
-Family hauling (dog or kids)?
-Camping/hiking?
-Looks?
-Is MPG a factor?
-Going skiing?

This all comes into factor. I love my Legacy (all of them) because of how much I can use it.

[Grind]

Where are you located???Brookfield, Wisconsin. Profile updated. :wink:



When it comes down to it, what do you want it for?
-Family hauling (dog or kids)?
-Camping/hiking?
-Looks?
-Is MPG a factor?
-Going skiing?

This all comes into factor. I love my Legacy (all of them) because of how much I can use it.
- My kids live with their mother, and have their own cars. Wife and I have two dogs, but they're small - some may say "tiny" - and have no problems fitting in my current MCS. Hell, they even ride on my motorcycle!
- When we go camping/road tripping, it's on our bikes. The only potential 'adventure' use would be one weekend a year, when Pop and I go hunting. We get into the woods via fire lanes and old logging roads, but nothing bad enough that we've even gotten into a predicament in his Dodge Magnum.
- Yes, looks. I kind of like the looks of the Outback, but would most likely lower the suspension if I got one. Mrs. Grind likes the Outback, too. Says it looks more "rugged, masculine".
- MPG is somewhat of a factor. Looking at the cars101 info, Legacies are only slightly less than what I get with my MCS. Certainly better than my wife's Camaro SS!
- I haven't skied in years, and most likely won't in the forseeable future.

Other than the hunting weekend, I won't be going off-road. Not likely to go autocrossing, either, but I wouldn't turn down the opportunity. :smt004

I'm torn about what transmission, as well. I love driving a manual in a spirited fashion, but loathe it in routine trips, especially heavy traffic.

Heated seats are important, though. I don't want a sunroof, either.

[harrymaneuvers]

Concerning the Baja, they came with NA ej253 or Turbo ej255, but the turbo model only came in automatic (no fun, I know). But the Baja did get a preview of a technology available in all automatic Subarus today: Tiptronic shifting.

If there is anything I missed or got incorrect, feel free to fix it.


I know for a fact that the turbo baja DID come with a 5 speed... they are just harder to find.

[Dead91silvia]

Concerning the Baja, they came with NA ej253 or Turbo ej255, but the turbo model only came in automatic (no fun, I know). But the Baja did get a preview of a technology available in all automatic Subarus today: Tiptronic shifting.

If there is anything I missed or got incorrect, feel free to fix it.


I know for a fact that the turbo baja DID come with a 5 speed... they are just harder to find.

I just about got an 05 Turbo Baja with a 5 speed....




Where are you located???Brookfield, Wisconsin. Profile updated. :wink:

- My kids live with their mother, and have their own cars. Wife and I have two dogs, but they're small - some may say "tiny" - and have no problems fitting in my current MCS. Hell, they even ride on my motorcycle!
- When we go camping/road tripping, it's on our bikes. The only potential 'adventure' use would be one weekend a year, when Pop and I go hunting. We get into the woods via fire lanes and old logging roads, but nothing bad enough that we've even gotten into a predicament in his Dodge Magnum.
- Yes, looks. I kind of like the looks of the Outback, but would most likely lower the suspension if I got one. Mrs. Grind likes the Outback, too. Says it looks more "rugged, masculine".
- MPG is somewhat of a factor. Looking at the cars101 info, Legacies are only slightly less than what I get with my MCS. Certainly better than my wife's Camaro SS!
- I haven't skied in years, and most likely won't in the forseeable future.

Other than the hunting weekend, I won't be going off-road. Not likely to go autocrossing, either, but I wouldn't turn down the opportunity. :smt004

I'm torn about what transmission, as well. I love driving a manual in a spirited fashion, but loathe it in routine trips, especially heavy traffic.

Heated seats are important, though. I don't want a sunroof, either.

Ok... for starters, I can almost guaranty you will not find a car with heated seats that does not have a sunroof. Kinda goes with the options.

These cars in the snow, regardless if you ski/snowboard or not, are some of the best snow cars you can find. This will also make a Dodge Magnum look like a POS in the snow and if you did get an Outback, it would make that Dodge look like a pansy. The clearance is fun! Even with my old 97 Outback I would flex it up just like my old Toyota 4x4. Could take it just about anywhere and never got stuck or hurt the car. Had it on 2 wheels a few times.

As one of the guys said before, the H6 ONLY comes in an auto. So you would want a 4 cylinder if you wanted a 5 speed. Traffic driving in a 3rd gen is not the most fun. they sometimes have a funky clutch and I know amgerrrety knows this since his car drove like mine.

The driving differeance from and auto to a man is night and day! I loved my GT as a 5 speed! Was a blast and was pretty good of MPG when I drove like a normal human. haha... Auto 3rd gens are kinda mundane and boring, but thats me. The shift points are funny and I tend to like the old harder shifting cars.

Best recommendation, go take some out for some test drives. Nothing beats getting in one and seeing what they are really like. Drive an H6, 4 cylinder, 5 speed, auto, GT, and/or an Outback.

Also, you should go take a look in Member Rides I, so you can see what cars people have and what can be done to them. Some lift, some lower, some leave them as they came from the factory.

Here is a link to my old 2000 GT
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23058&p=267687#p267687 (https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23058&p=267687#p267687)

And my current H6 Outback
http://www.sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25850

[amgarrety]

Let me make some corrections to my earlier post now that I have the actual brochures in hand. This should clear up any confusion about which models had which options. All of this information comes from the 2003 Legacy brochure and the 2003 Outback brochure. These options may vary depending on which year you're looking at, especially 2000-2002 models. The 2003 and 2004 models should be similar, if not exactly the same.

All sub-models available in sedan and wagon unless specifically denoted.

4 CYLINDER

L - Base model. 165 horsepower, 166 lb.-ft. of torque. Standard cloth interior, CD player, power windows, locks, and mirrors, ambient temperature gauge, keyless remote, fixed intermittent windshield wipers.

L SE - Everything above plus power moonroof (dual on wagon), cruise control, woodgrain trim, leather steering wheel and shifter, 16" alloy rims, fog lights.

GT - Everything above plus more woodgrain (around window switches), leather interior, 8-way power driver's seat, side-impact air bags, side skirts, premium audio system with 6-disc changer (option on lower models), illuminated ignition switch ring, rear subwoofer, sportshift (option), variable torque distribution (VTD), limited slip differential, dual mode heated front seats, heated exterior mirrors, windshield wiper de-icer, variable intermittent windshield wipers.

*VTD gives slight bias of power to the rear wheels for more of a "performance-driving" feel.



Outback Sport Sedan - power windows, locks, and mirrors, cruise control, remote keyless entry system, AM/FM/Weatherband audio system with CD player, ground clearance of 7.3 inches, 16-inch aluminum-alloy wheels, Titanium Pearl body-side cladding and bumpers, fog lights with stone shields.

Outback Wagon - Everything above plus limited slip differential, 6-way power driver’s seat, illuminated visor mirrors, four cup holders (as opposed to two in the sport sedan), in glass intenna, heated exterior mirrors, windshield wiper de-icer, dual-mode heated front seats.

Outback Limited Sedan & Wagon - Front seat side-impact air bags, leather-trimmed upholstery, leather-wrapped steering wheel and shifter handle, premium audio system with a 6-disc in-dash CD changer and seven speakers (nine on the wagon), rear sub-woofer, power glass moonroof (dual on the wagon), 16-inch aluminum-alloy wheels with gold accents.



6 CYLINDER

Outback H6-3.0 Sedan - 212 horsepower, 210 lb.-ft. of torque. 16-inch aluminum-alloy wheels with gold accents, automatic climate control system w/ air filtration system, 8-way power driver’s seat, mahogany wood and leather-wrapped steering wheel, standard remote keyless entry with security system and OnStar.

Outback H6-3.0 L.L.Bean Edition Wagon - Signature interior (perforated leather-trimmed upholstery featuring L.L.Bean logo embossed front seats), specially embroidered front floor mats, standard auto-dimming rearview mirror w/ digital compass.

Outback H6-3.0 VDC Sedan & Wagon - *Best equipped model* Vehicle Dynamics Control (VDC), standard McIntosh premium AM/FM/Weatherband audio system, 6-disc in-dash CD changer, 11 speakers in 7 locations, rear sub-woofer, moonroof (dual on wagon).

*VDC responds to adverse road conditions by helping to control the sideways movement of the vehicle.

[rkrenicki]

I did not realize that the L had no cruise, and that the H6 sedan came standard with onstar. I just figured that it was an option. Learn something new every day.

[Yamazaki]

I did not realize that the L had no cruise, and that the H6 sedan came standard with onstar. I just figured that it was an option. Learn something new every day.
That's for '03. The '02 model didn't have Onstar. At least my H6 VDC didn't (so I figure none of them did).

[Grind]

So it looks like the Outback can be had with cloth heated seats and no sunroof. And the GT cannot be had without a sunroof. Also, leather seating is only available in cars with the sunroof.(at least in '03)

Or am I missing something?

[amgarrety]

I'll have to double check on the outback being cloth. I wrote this up quick so there's a good possibility I have some stuff wrong here. But as I have it now, it looks like the car that is right down your alley (cloth interior and no moonroof) is the Outback wagon (non-limited).

I don't believe there are any GTs without a sunroof.

And as long as what I typed is correct, yes, leather is only available in models with a sunroof. Let me double check on the non-limited sedan and wagon again though.

[harrymaneuvers]

Had no idea that subaru's ever came with Onstar, I thought that was a GM only product... learn something new every day.

[rkrenicki]

GM had their fingers into Subaru in the early to mid 2000s, that is where the SAAB 92X Aero "Sabaru" came from. Now Toyota has minority control of Subaru, and today some Camrys are made at SIA right next to Legacies, Tribecas and Outbacks.

[amgarrety]

Ok, according to the brochures, the non-limited sedan and wagon came with cloth interior and no moonroof. On top of that, the wagon got the heated seats.

So if you want cloth interior, no moonroof, and heated seats, it appears that the non-limited outback wagon is the only option, at least in '03.

[Grind]

Excellent. Thank you, amgarrety, Harry and dead.

[Yamazaki]

For extensive information, go to www.cars101.com (http://www.cars101.com)

[Huffer]

For extensive information, go to http://www.cars101.com

This should have been the first post. For SHAME!

[amgarrety]

I died a little inside when I realized I could've saved myself a lot of typing.

[Grind]

But don't you feel good, when sharing your wealth of knowledge, rather than just dropping a link and saying "read this"? I mean c'mon, who doesn't love talking about their cars? ;-)

[Grind]

And yes, I've done some reading on cars101.

[Dead91silvia]

I love our members, some love to talk, some get right to the point... heh heh...

[amgarrety]

I love our members, some love to talk, some get right to the point... heh heh...

Are you saying I talk too much? Because I could just as easily make a comment about some people on this forum who own too many cars :lol:

[Dead91silvia]

I love our members, some love to talk, some get right to the point... heh heh...

Are you saying I talk too much? Because I could just as easily make a comment about some people on this forum who own too many cars :lol:

HA! I would be including myself in this comment! :smt005

But you are catching up to me! I guess we are the social butterfly's of SLi! :grin:

[Grind]

I grove a couple cars today. First was an '02 Outback automatic and then an '01 Outback H6 VDC. Also drove an '04 Impreza 5 spd.

After seeing the sunroof in the VDC, I guess I could live with one. My concerns were about headroom and what kind of shade it has. (my MCS's shade is a joke)

The automatic was ok, but I'll look for a 5 spd.

[drtylggy]

I've been following this thread and it seems like everyone has got you covered on a wealth of information. Although I noticed the mention of head room and moonroof. I am 6'2" and I have more than enough room in my Legacy, I too have a moonroof and didn't like the light coming in all that much or leaving the moonroof cracked in the summer with all that light, made the car hotter rather than cooler. There are two options with a moonroof, buy a painted vinyl for the top to let no light in or buy some tint and tint the moonroof. I tinted mine to 5%, I can leave it cracked and let the air keep the car cool and keep the sun from coming in while driving. Unless of course it is open the whole way, then there is nothing you can do.