Steps to Buidling a FASTER Legacy!

[mimmdawg]

I am looking for advice on improving the performance of my 2004 Legacy (35th Ann. Ed, M/T).

What are the most important parts to upgrade and replace?
What's the first part to upgrade? Second? Third?

I want to keep my engine N/A! But I want it to be as quick, as reliable and as long lasting as possible!

Here's your chance to share your ideas!

[Huffer]

Fast in a straight line?
Higher top-speed?
Quicker 1/4mile?
Shorter times for laps?
Quicker hill-climbs?

What's your definition of fast?

First thing I would do is lower the car an inch and stiffen the rear of the car.
Next I would upgrade the tires and wheels for lighter, wider wheels, then add aggressive front and rear brake pads.

Next would be a short shifter and a lightweight flywheel.

[98BG5GT]

I agree with Huffer. Good handling is just as important if not more important than engine mods. Then there is good driving..... :smile:

[Reason]

Like what was said above a better handling car will make your car feel quicker.

[Sarra]

Step 1: Pull the motor, transmission, axles, hubs, and associated hardware.
Step 2: Throw it all in the 'for sale' bin.
Step 3: Swap in a 2004 STi motor, transmission, axles, hubs, brakes, rear diff, throw on a 4EAT driveshaft, and call it good.
Step 4: Go stage 5 on the motor and make 800+ WHP.

[Huffer]

Step 1: Pull the motor, transmission, axles, hubs, and associated hardware.
Step 2: Throw it all in the 'for sale' bin.
Step 3: Swap in a 2004 STi motor, transmission, axles, hubs, brakes, rear diff, throw on a 4EAT driveshaft, and call it good.
Step 4: Go stage 5 on the motor and make 800+ WHP.

Wow. You totally missed the part about keeping it NA. :roll:

[Airgne]

Step 1: Pull the motor, transmission, axles, hubs, and associated hardware.
Step 2: Throw it all in the 'for sale' bin.
Step 3: Swap in a 2004 STi motor, transmission, axles, hubs, brakes, rear diff, throw on a 4EAT driveshaft, and call it good.
Step 4: Go stage 5 on the motor and make 800+ WHP.

Wow. You totally missed the part about keeping it NA. :roll:

well the motor will still be n/a, it will just not be in his car anymore.

[Sarra]

Step 1: Pull the motor, transmission, axles, hubs, and associated hardware.
Step 2: Throw it all in the 'for sale' bin.
Step 3: Swap in a 2004 STi motor, transmission, axles, hubs, brakes, rear diff, throw on a 4EAT driveshaft, and call it good.
Step 4: Go stage 5 on the motor and make 800+ WHP.

Wow. You totally missed the part about keeping it NA. :roll:

I will admit 100% that I did not even bother to read the first post. :roll:

[Reason]

Step 1: Pull the motor, transmission, axles, hubs, and associated hardware.
Step 2: Throw it all in the 'for sale' bin.
Step 3: Swap in a 2004 STi motor, transmission, axles, hubs, brakes, rear diff, throw on a 4EAT driveshaft, and call it good.
Step 4: Go stage 5 on the motor and make 800+ WHP.

Wow. You totally missed the part about keeping it NA. :roll:

I will admit 100% that I did not even bother to read the first post. :roll:

It might be a good idea to start, so you don't sound foolish?

[Mr. Sociable]

EZ30 swap.

JK. Your car will never be "fast" in a straight line. Hell...it'll never be absolutely outstanding in the corners either, but you can try. Wide wide tires on light wheels for all of your car's mass, a quality suspension upgrade, and some drivers experience will be your best bets.

[deadlydave]

New struts with aftermarket springs, front and rear sways, and endlinks. Replace suspension bushings.

Then, do an H6 rear brake conversion, 4-pot front brake conversion with some hawk brake pads, stainless steel lines, and new fluid.

Then, catback exhaust.

Your car will feel great, handle well, and sound great. Once you get used to it, then start looking for more power from an intake, cams, and ECU reflash.

You can also strip out some weight, because it's free. :-)

[mimmdawg]

I guess I never realized how much the braking and suspension of a vehicle can affect its performance!

are those types of mods real pricey?

[Reason]

I guess I never realized how much the braking and suspension of a vehicle can affect its performance!

are those types of mods real pricey?

You be surprised, keeping power to the ground and being able to stop helps.

As for pricey, like I told you I'll get you what I can at a good price.

[Sarra]

EZ30 swap.

JK. Your car will never be "fast" in a straight line. Hell...it'll never be absolutely outstanding in the corners either, but you can try. Wide wide tires on light wheels for all of your car's mass, a quality suspension upgrade, and some drivers experience will be your best bets.

Well, an EZ30R would be about as fast as a WRX, the EZ30 makes 230 hp and 212(?) lb ft of torque. Add some custom cams, intake, exhaust, and maybe you'll make 240/225. That's not exactly 'fast', but it's better than the stock 165 or 135 hp motor. Bore the cylinders out to the max and sleeve, then run the highest compression rate you could might get a few more ponies and probably a bunch more torque, but the EZ30R is already running 10.7:1 CR IIRC.





Step 1: Pull the motor, transmission, axles, hubs, and associated hardware.
Step 2: Throw it all in the 'for sale' bin.
Step 3: Swap in a 2004 STi motor, transmission, axles, hubs, brakes, rear diff, throw on a 4EAT driveshaft, and call it good.
Step 4: Go stage 5 on the motor and make 800+ WHP.

Wow. You totally missed the part about keeping it NA. :roll:

I will admit 100% that I did not even bother to read the first post. :roll:

It might be a good idea to start, so you don't sound foolish?

Maybe if the question hasn't been asked 100's of times before. Maybe someone whould write a sticky on 'making NA fast'?

[Reason]

EZ30 swap.

JK. Your car will never be "fast" in a straight line. Hell...it'll never be absolutely outstanding in the corners either, but you can try. Wide wide tires on light wheels for all of your car's mass, a quality suspension upgrade, and some drivers experience will be your best bets.

Well, an EZ30R would be about as fast as a WRX, the EZ30 makes 230 hp and 212(?) lb ft of torque. Add some custom cams, intake, exhaust, and maybe you'll make 240/225. That's not exactly 'fast', but it's better than the stock 165 or 135 hp motor. Bore the cylinders out to the max and sleeve, then run the highest compression rate you could might get a few more ponies and probably a bunch more torque, but the EZ30R is already running 10.7:1 CR IIRC.





Step 1: Pull the motor, transmission, axles, hubs, and associated hardware.
Step 2: Throw it all in the 'for sale' bin.
Step 3: Swap in a 2004 STi motor, transmission, axles, hubs, brakes, rear diff, throw on a 4EAT driveshaft, and call it good.
Step 4: Go stage 5 on the motor and make 800+ WHP.

Wow. You totally missed the part about keeping it NA. :roll:

I will admit 100% that I did not even bother to read the first post. :roll:

It might be a good idea to start, so you don't sound foolish?

Maybe if the question hasn't been asked 100's of times before. Maybe someone whould write a sticky on 'making NA fast'?

This is very true, a sticky would be in order. Some sort of thread of notes.

As for the original question he doesn't want a boosted engine. Knowing that you can get more power easier out of a boosted engine the question was a N/A route.

[Mr. Sociable]

EZ30 swap.

JK. Your car will never be "fast" in a straight line. Hell...it'll never be absolutely outstanding in the corners either, but you can try. Wide wide tires on light wheels for all of your car's mass, a quality suspension upgrade, and some drivers experience will be your best bets.

Well, an EZ30R would be about as fast as a WRX, the EZ30 makes 230 hp and 212(?) lb ft of torque. Add some custom cams, intake, exhaust, and maybe you'll make 240/225. That's not exactly 'fast', but it's better than the stock 165 or 135 hp motor. Bore the cylinders out to the max and sleeve, then run the highest compression rate you could might get a few more ponies and probably a bunch more torque, but the EZ30R is already running 10.7:1 CR IIRC.



The EZ30R has a kill function. I'm not saying it's not possible....but what's mentioned here would cost THOUSANDS.


No matter the engine, a N/A Subaru will be pricey to bring up to even STi speed.

[Tokio]

dont forget weight loss. hp and ft/lbs. numbers are great, but what REALLY matters is the 'hp to weight' ratio.

DO YOUR RESEARCH. learn everything you can starting with "Opera Performance" in Japan. strip it, then strip it some more, buy a quality hole saws and some dimple dies, replace the hood, fenders, all windows 'cept front. racing hart cp135r rims are the lightest available... throw in a LW crank pulley and flywheel and youll be happy.

[Huffer]

Keep in mind when you strip the sound deadening...you lose a lot of comfort...

[rougeben83]

I'm sorry, but gutting the car? Buying 2k+ wheel sets? Replacing your body panels with lightweight pieces? Swapping in a slightly more powerful H6? And all for what? To be slower than even lightly modified WRX...

Let's be reasonable here, I know I'm sounding like a complete jackass, but you really have to approach modifying an N/A subaru with a perspective of diminishing returns. And unfortunately you reach it much more quickly than you would on a turbocharged subaru.

There comes a point where you're just spending so much money to be only marginally faster than stock that it wouldve been more cost effective to go over to the "dark side" in the first place...I know I reached that point, and a few guys have have sold or swapped their N/A legacy's have as well.

You can make an N/A engine quickER than stock. But in the realm of what is considered truly quick, it won't be up there.

You REALLY want to spend your money on making your car fast? Spend it on track days, autox, and racing schools. THEN you can really embarass quite a few WRX and STi owners by kicking their tailpipes in your STOCK N/A subaru.

[Sarra]

Naw, a totally stock WRX would be a bit slower than a LGT or similar with an H6 in it. The H6 makes 230 hp, the WRX only 227. The H6 has a better torque curve than the WRX. A lightly modded WRX would probably have a little problem with a modded H6, and the shorter gearing a LGT came with would definantly give the advantage to the H6 powered car, especially since the H6 makes good low end.

[Tokio]

I'm sorry, but gutting the car? Buying 2k+ wheel sets? Replacing your body panels with lightweight pieces? Swapping in a slightly more powerful H6? And all for what? To be slower than even lightly modified WRX...

I know I'm sounding like a complete jackass, but you really have to approach modifying an N/A subaru with a perspective of diminishing returns. And unfortunately you reach it much more quickly than you would on a turbocharged subaru.

There comes a point where you're just spending so much money to be only marginally faster than stock that it wouldve been more cost effective to go over to the "dark side" in the first place...I know I reached that point, and a few guys have have sold or swapped their N/A legacy's have as well.

You can make an N/A engine quickER than stock. But in the realm of what is considered truly quick, it won't be up there.

You REALLY want to spend your money on making your car fast? Spend it on track days, autox, and racing schools. THEN you can really embarass quite a few WRX and STi owners by kicking their tailpipes in your STOCK N/A subaru.

and whats truly quick? please tell me.

dude, the sooner you learn that subie turbos are pretenders the better off you will be. take my word for it. just enjoy the car for what it is and leave monster turbo motors to nissan, mitsu, and toyota.

[rougeben83]

and whats truly quick? please tell me.

dude, the sooner you learn that subie turbos are pretenders the better off you will be. take my word for it. just enjoy the car for what it is and leave monster turbo motors to nissan, mitsu, and toyota.

Being in Detroit, I'm talking about 10sec, 500-600+hp pushrod V8's. If there's one thing good about american engines its that you can make power cheaply, and I mean $150 headers for 20+hp cheap.

My 350something at the crank pales in comparison to some of the cars I see rolling by here everyday.

To my point, your unreasonable suggestions will make your car completely unlivable that's on top of spending thousands of dollars all those custom fiberglass body panels, and you can't even touch a regular turbo WRX.

There's a limit I'm willing to spend on modifying a car and it all boils down to the rate of return you get with each dollar you spend; on an N/A subaru that's tends to be worse than even some N/A japanese 4 bangers out there.

How to make more power out of an ej253? Bolt-ons, cai, exhaust, headers will get you to about 180-85bhp, that should be around $1000. Cam regrinds (spicy profile from Delta) will get you to around 200bhp, its around $200 for the service and another $500 to pay someone to install it. After that, you're pretty much going into custom work on the engine which is $$$.

[Tokio]

it IS unreasonable, but not unliveable. ok ok, now im just baiting you... but "case in point", i average about 1500 miles a week, but i admit my first post was half joking. how many NA noobies ask the same question week after week after...

220 chp is fine enough for me nowadays, having DONE the turbo thing, and also having tried out an ez30. i blew two motors due to boost addiction and could never get the h6 to run right, then i blew that up too.

so im back to an ej25d where i started. my BD weighs around 2700lbs, is too loud inside to listen to a radio, has an insanely rough ride, but its a BLAAAST to drive! and i AM faster than stock rex's. not by much, granted. plus, i stopped obsessing about buying bigger better parts to keep up with the dyno crowd.

...but that wasnt the point. 95% of the cars/trucks where i live are easy prey, not that i go looking to harass folks, im just out having a good time. sadly there are just too many teens cavs/civics with unpainted body kits, ebay fart cans, and 20" rims on the roads these days.

this is the house of NA. go whine in your own forum category. :grin:

[rougeben83]

it IS unreasonable, but not unliveable. ok ok, now im just baiting you... but "case in point", i average about 1500 miles a week, but i admit my first post was half joking. how many NA noobies ask the same question week after week after...

220 chp is fine enough for me nowadays, having DONE the turbo thing, and also having tried out an ez30. i blew two motors due to boost addiction and could never get the h6 to run right, then i blew that up too.

so im back to an ej25d where i started. my BD weighs around 2700lbs, is too loud inside to listen to a radio, has an insanely rough ride, but its a BLAAAST to drive! and i AM faster than stock rex's. not by much, granted. plus, i stopped obsessing about buying bigger better parts to keep up with the dyno crowd.

...but that wasnt the point. 95% of the cars/trucks where i live are easy prey, not that i go looking to harass folks, im just out having a good time. sadly there are just too many teens cavs/civics with unpainted body kits, ebay fart cans, and 20" rims on the roads these days.

this is the house of NA. go whine in your own forum category. :grin:

I'm simply stating my experience with modifying the stock engine, I don't want anyone to delude themselves into thinking that they can get the same power out of their na boxer like they would an na VTEC honda engine for the same amount of money, its just not going to happen. Once I got all the regular bolt-ons done (and a couple of other small tweaks), I was looking at almost $800 in cams, another $500 to get the heads pnp'ed, etc etc,

His BE is around 3300lbs, unfortunately even 200bhp will not get him to keep up with stock WRX's (unlike the lighter BD/GC cars), and most of the weight is in the car's frame...

The amount of power I have right now is more than enough to get me into a lot of trouble, very quickly, I go back to my original point that if he really wants to beat guys making more power than him, he'll have to start turning that nut behind the steering wheel. :wink:

[ScaryFatKidGT]

ahhh just get a wrx or sti engine i almost got a wrx engine and trany 4 my BD for 4 grand but i desided it was a waist cuz it would take me forever 2 swap it

or u could just pull every thing out make custom mounts extend the firewall and get a huge tall hood and put a LS1 in and go boost crazy on it and break some world records before u blow another engine

[ScaryFatKidGT]

or u could just putt it on dispay for ur "fast car fund" heck id pay money 2 see a BD with a LS1 in it

[Tokio]

I'm simply stating my experience with modifying the stock engine, I don't want anyone to delude themselves into thinking that they can get the same power out of their na boxer like they would an na VTEC honda engine for the same amount of money, its just not going to happen. Once I got all the regular bolt-ons done (and a couple of other small tweaks), I was looking at almost $800 in cams, another $500 to get the heads pnp'ed, etc etc,

His BE is around 3300lbs, unfortunately even 200bhp will not get him to keep up with stock WRX's (unlike the lighter BD/GC cars), and most of the weight is in the car's frame...

The amount of power I have right now is more than enough to get me into a lot of trouble, very quickly, I go back to my original point that if he really wants to beat guys making more power than him, he'll have to start turning that nut behind the steering wheel. :wink:

alright, i can agree with that. :smile:

[Tokio]

ahhh just get a wrx or sti engine i almost got a wrx engine and trany 4 my BD for 4 grand but i desided it was a waist cuz it would take me forever 2 swap it

or u could just pull every thing out make custom mounts extend the firewall and get a huge tall hood and put a LS1 in and go boost crazy on it and break some world records before u blow another engine

theres a rex on... rs25 i think, that put a LS1 in. you should check that out. it mightve been clubwrx though, i havent seen it in a while.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

hahahaha

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea ... 39&page=13 (http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=380239&page=13)

thats not a EJ

see it can be done

[1-3-2-4]

I agree with Huffer. Good handling is just as important if not more important than engine mods. Then there is good driving..... :smile:

Ditto Im going to learn my lesson this time on the 3rd subie just I don't know about wanting to lower the car too much due to snow.

[Sarra]

Sweet. I always wondered if it could be done.

[rougeben83]

If they can fit an LS1 into a miata, they can certainly shoehorn it into an WRX :lol:

[Sarra]

Next, V10's from Vipers into a Subaru GL.

[phoonTy]

Sweet. I always wondered if it could be done.

Actually, if you skip to the end... It wasn't done. The project was a hacked up mess that never got finished.

Sad too, because it was a cool idea.

Reminds me of a guy I know with an LS7 Miata. :razz:

[Okin DaVanh]

Just get a couple of bottles of laughing gas and your AAA card ready.

[Tokio]

Just get a couple of bottles of laughing gas and your AAA card ready.

LMAO

[ScaryFatKidGT]

where do u get a LS7 bet that cost alot

i wana figure out the power to weight ratio on somthing like that 500+ hp to 2500lbs. or somthing

[Huffer]

i wana figure out the power to weight ratio on somthing like that 500+ hp to 2500lbs. or somthing

err, power/weight = 500hp/2500lbs = 0.2hp per lb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-to-weight_ratio

[ScaryFatKidGT]

ha ok and a miata is only 2,200 pounds thats gota be a quick drag car dont know if u could keep it on the road though

about his legacy though do u think a BE could hold boost if u wanted to even like 6 or 8 psi

[jg09]

ha ok and a miata is only 2,200 pounds thats gota be a quick drag car dont know if u could keep it on the road though

Yeah, good luck getting it to hook up off the line. :shock: I got my ass handed to me once in my old car by a 427 Miata...he burned out on the freeway at 70 mph.

[Reason]

Miatas with V8 conversion FTW!