Third Gen Black Faced Meter (BFM) Information - 2015-01-09

[rkrenicki]

Some photos of the progress today. I only have the B and C harnesses done, I will tackle the A harness after work tomorrow. In this process, I found an error on my PCB where I forgot to route a line for the second ignition pin on the B connector, however a quick jumper on the underside of the board fixed that for now. Oh well, if thats the only mistake on this board, I am happy with it. I believe on the 030, I do not even have that pin wired as it is, but I am running it for the sake of completion on this.

This is the C harness by itself.


This is the B and C harnesses connected to the adapter.


And this is the B and C harnesses connected to the adapter and the 090 cluster.

[rkrenicki]

In response to amgarrety.. I could design one for your car, but the price for the board using my manufacturer is about $78 for three boards (about $26 per board). He does not offer quantities lower than that as I need to order in multiples of three. That also does not include the connectors or speedometer adapter itself.

I did not mind having three boards made up as I always intended one to go to Yamazaki. If you have some people who might be interested in splitting the cost with you, I could potentially make 3 whole adapters from one order. If that were the case, I would need to get on duplicating that speedo adapter so as to not have such a high cost on those as well. It could also be designed in such a way to be part of the board instead of a daughterboard like it is now.

I could look at other PCB manufacturers who may have a lower cost for a "lower quality" board as well. I only use this guy because he has amazing quality control, thick high quality substrate, lead-free finish, thick purple solder mask, and offers silkscreen on both sides for a "prototyping service", all of which is nearly unheard of for $5/sq in for three copies. This board does not really need all of these features, but instead of messing around with a new manufacturer for a one-off product I just went with the tried and true guy.

The other thing is, I do not have enough information on all of the USDM H4 models to know how interchangable it would be. I know from the information from Yamazaki's 02 H6 VDC that it matches my car with the exception of the VDC that mine lacks. I can make an educated guess that the 03 would probably be the same as well as it is unlikely that they changed it and changed it back.

To sum up, to make just one, assuming the extra boards were just going to sit on a shelf forever.. it would be about $150 (including the cost of the speedo adapter of $50ish). To make two, it ends up costing closer to $110 each, and three would be about $100 each. That is just materials cost, and it would take me a few hours to build each one as well.

[Yamazaki]

The other thing is, I do not have enough information on all of the USDM H4 models to know how interchangable it would be. I know from the information from Yamazaki's 02 H6 VDC that it matches my car with the exception of the VDC that mine lacks. I can make an educated guess that the 03 would probably be the same as well as it is unlikely that they changed it and changed it back.

I have a wiring diagram for the H4 Legacy, but I think you and amgarrety do too.... If not, let me know and I can do up a wiring chart for amgarrety's car like I did for mine.

[rkrenicki]

I think I do have a diagram for a 2002 H4 (I have to check what one it is exactly), but the question I have is any differences across models or other years.

I think we were fortunate that the H6 was identical across (at least our) years, but I doubt that is the case with all of the rest of the models, if there are significant differences, I do not think it would be feasible to design an adapter for each USDM variation.

[rkrenicki]

I keep re-reading my post and it sounds like I am coming up with reasons not to do it. That is really not the case. I would be more than happy to sit down, design, order, and build an adapter for amgarretys car, but I do not know if it would work on any other model or year, so the extra two boards may have a very limited potential buyer pool.

[Yamazaki]

I think a really easy way to tell is to find the part number for the different models. If they're the same number, then it stands to reason that they're the same part.

[02_Legacy]

Just throwing it out there that if you did find out that the same pinout would work across multiple years and it would be economical to build a set of boards I would be interested in getting one. That is based on cost of the board and meter though. about $100 for the board would not be bad, but how much does it cost for these clusters, a quick search on e-bay did not turn up any of them for me.

[rkrenicki]

eBay prices vary wildly. I bought my '030 cluster for about $130 shipped to me from the UK, but that was an amazing price (the cluster was about $45, the rest was shipping). On the US eBay site, I regularly see them for $150-$250 plus shipping.

The '090 cluster I bought from Yahoo Auctions Japan and using a payment and shipping proxy in Tokyo ended up costing me about $130 after my proxys commission and both shipping charges (shipping to him, and then shipping to me).

That being said, my '030 cluster (H4 4EAT cluster) will be for sale here pretty soon, once I have the '090 all ready to go.

Yamazaki: digging around my PMs, I have a part number of 13AE60A that was given to be my amgarrety, but that may have been the donor cluster that he used for the male connectors on his adapter. that may or may not match what originally was in the car.

[02_Legacy]

wow that is not bad at all, I would definitely be in on a group buy for those circuit boards. Would 5mt vs 4eat matter for the boards, I'm assuming that I just would not use the pins relating to the automatic transmission.
Also, this is the lazy side in me lol, do you know what the part number would be for a cluster meant for an H4 5mt?
I'm kinda excited about this now that i found out price of the clusters, I imagined they would be more than that.

Edit: it seems that i remember reading a post by yamazaki a while ago that listed a bunch of part numbers for JDM clusters, but I can't seem to find it. Anyone know where it is?

[amgarrety]

Yamazaki: digging around my PMs, I have a part number of 13AE60A that was given to be my amgarrety, but that may have been the donor cluster that he used for the male connectors on his adapter. that may or may not match what originally was in the car.

That is definitely for the donor cluster. I know as a fact the part number will be different from my stock 5MT cluster because it was 4EAT and had a security light. I'll get you a part number for my stock cluster next time I'm home.

[rkrenicki]

The 5MT and 4EAT should not matter on the board side, as the only real difference is the presence of the PRND321 signals or not. At least that is the only real difference between the 15AE020 and 15AE030 Black faced clusters.

There are two different "revisions" of the BFM, one that has the clock on the right hand side and a single Trip counter, and the newer versions with the clock on the left and two trip counters. I believe that the 98-99 were the single trip, and the 2000-02 were the dual trip, but there may be some crossover in the 1999-2000 years.

This is what I know so far from what I have seen, what pinouts I have found, and from sales on Yahoo Auctions Japan:

85015AE010 - 4EAT H4 Single Trip [BE5/BH5] 7k-redline
85015AE020 - 5MT H4 Single Trip 7k-redline
85015AE030 - 4EAT H4 Single Trip (Sportshift) 7k-redline
85015AE040 - 5MT H4 Dual Trip [RSK] 7.5k-redline
85015AE050 - 4EAT H4 Dual Trip (Sportshift) [BE5/BH5] 7k-redline
85015AE060 - 4EAT H4 Dual Trip 7k-redline
85015AE070 - 4EAT H4 Dual Trip [2001 B4] 6.5k-redline
85015AE080 - Dual Trip [unknown gearbox]
85015AE090 - 4EAT H6 Dual Trip 6.5k-redline
85015AE210 - 4EAT H4 Dual Trip 6.5k-redline
85015AE220 - 4EAT H4
85015AE260 - 5MT H4 Dual Trip 6k-redline
85015AE270 - 4EAT H4 Dual Trip 6k-redline

[Yamazaki]

From what I have, 080 is for the 2.5L, not an H6....

I'll double check your list with what I have and make corrections as I see them. Unfortunately, I have stuff by model code, not trim or description. But I know that a BH9 is 2.5L and that's what got the 080.

[rkrenicki]

From what I have, 080 is for the 2.5L, not an H6....

I'll double check your list with what I have and make corrections as I see them. Unfortunately, I have stuff by model code, not trim or description. But I know that a BH9 is 2.5L and that's what got the 080.

That is possible, my information for that cluster came from a listing on Yahoo Auctions. There was an 080 cluster listed as coming from a BHE a bit ago, but that very possibly was incorrect. I have not seen any additional 080s listed since then. Since I am going by memory only, I took the engine size reference off of my listing.

Right now there are several 010, 040, 050, one 060, one 070, a few 090, one 210 and one 270 listed on there.

[02_Legacy]

Edit: I'll PM you so I don't clutter your thread.

[rkrenicki]

So, some actual progress today. My wife has a double ear infection, so I helped her after I got home from work until she went to sleep. Then I completed the "A" harness and tested the cluster.

The results!


I also discovered that it will fairly easily fit up behind the metal support back there but it was too dark to get any decent pictures of that. It is tight, and it needs to be assembled while in the car, but it does fit.

I also suddenly remembered that I was going to put cardboard on the bottom of the board to keep it from shorting out.. as I was wiggling it around in there, I hit the ignition line to the body and I released the magical blue smoke. The cluster was not connected when I did this, and it is just one trace on the adapter board which is easily fixable..

Tomorrow, I am going to reprogram the cluster, finish the dimmer wiring, and finally mount the properly working 090 cluster in my car. Yay for an accurate tachometer, two trip meters, and a Cruise Set light!

[Yamazaki]

Looks great!
Also, I forgot if you said that it will be wired so we can do the rear hatch (trunk for us sedan guys) light when we get around to it....

[rkrenicki]

Yep, as far as the adapter is concerned, the trunk line is connected. I just need to find the other end of that wire to see if the existing trunk switch can be wired into it. The only thing I did not wire up on mine was the VDC stuff, but the lines are present on the adapter as well.

Oh, and I took it for a spin around the block (the 1.1 miles on the trip meter there), and at least up to 35mph it seems to be completely accurate with my GPS... which really confuses me after our conversation the other day... I will take it on the highway tomorrow to verify it at higher speeds, but I am perfectly okay if it has suddenly lost that 5% inaccuracy.

[rkrenicki]

Take two!

This time, I taped some cardboard to the bottom!


Here is the board in the car, not tucked away for testing. The grey cable going to the left is for the dimmer:


Here is the board tucked up above the ducting. There is about an inch and a half between the DA and DB connectors and that brace in the middle there.


The harnesses attached:


And, the cluster in! Fits just about perfectly, I have to fiddle with the JDM "B" harness to get it to fit a little better, but thats a minor adjustment:


For Yamazaki, here is the shot of that AT Oil Temp light in the key-on-engine-off mode.


The only thing I have to figure out right now with the connections is the dimmer.. It is not behaving like I would expect it, or how it behaved with the 030 cluster. I need to pull the multifunction switch out and double check it for any loose connections or whatnot.

Besides that, I still have to reprogram the cluster. I attempted to do it with my Bus Pirate while it was still on the circuit board, but that does not seem to want to work. I guess I will have to pull the chip off the board like I originally thought, and program it directly. That will have to wait until tonight when I get home.

[amgarrety]

Wow that looks so good. I'm very impressed with how that turned out.

[rkrenicki]

I could not be happier with the way it turned out. It has been a long and tedious journey to get to this point, but seeing this all in there makes it all worth it.

The only thing that annoys me with the way it is right now, is that the connectors being brand new are *REALLY* tight. I just about injure myself every time I disconnect the JDM side "A" connector since it has the most contacts. The "B" is not as bad, but still pretty stuck in there.. the "C" comes out fairly easily, since there are only a few contacts in there. I guess that would not be an issue if I was not pulling out the cluster every few hours, hah. Once I am completely done and worked out all of the kinks.. I should "never" have to touch it again.

[chuckthefuk]

rkrenicki = my new electrical hero!!!

have you thought about a type of spray on rubberizer like plastidip? Simple 2 shot spray and all the traces will be insulated and no need for the cardboard.

-Chuck

[rkrenicki]

The traces are not really the problem, but the leads sticking down from the board. I think plastidip would not be resilient enough against vibration against the pins for a long term solution. I actually have a can of conformal coating somewhere that I was going to use for it, but I could not find it anywhere..

The cardboard, while a little ghetto, does work pretty good though!

I am still trying to figure out this dimming problem.. I pulled out the Multifunction switch, and tested what it does with a multimeter and it works as I would expect. I reconnected the MFS to the cluster and now it works fine.. except when I reconnect the car to the MFS.. then it goes all fubar again.

Oh, and yay for accurate tachometers!

[rkrenicki]

So, reprogramming the 090 cluster is a pain. Yamazaki, you are very lucky that the one you have is close enough!

Here are the two versions of the EEPROMS, the one on the left is from the 090, and the one on the right is from a 2002 GT.


After removing the chip from the board, I needed to use an adapter for my programmer.. it is hard to make out, but the tiny eeprom is in the middle there.


After it was all said and done, it now reads the correct mileage, however it looks like I may have damaged the trip portion of the odometer, as the segments on top, bottom, and the two on the left no longer light up. It looks like my screwdriver might have pinched the ribbon cable and damaged one of the conductors.. I guess I will have to jumper it out at some later time, but I do not want to pull it apart yet again. Even though this should be showing 0.0, it looks like 0.1. All other segments seem to be just fine, so I will live with it for the moment.


EDIT: well, I decided that its going to bug me in the end, so I bought another 090 cluster for dirt cheap (1480yen, works out to under $20 for the cluster!) so that I can swap around the LCD module. I am sure that I can flip the one with the damaged LCD on eBay for much more than I will end up paying for this replacement.

[rkrenicki]

Well, the other 090 cluster is now on its way, I should have it within a week or so and I will swap in that LCD module right away.

I am trying to decide what to do with the 030. I could either sell it on here with the harness, or on ebay.. or there is another possibility.. I have seen in the past people putting BE/BH clusters into a BG.. I could put it in my BG, but I am a little fuzzy how to make it look good.

I have no question that I can make it work, but looking like it belongs is a completely different ball of wax.

I am also completely baffled by the dimmer controls on this 090. It looks like if I have the cluster connected to the stalk along with the illumination module, then nothing works right anymore. All of the dash illumination goes out, and the cluster is either on full bright, or full dark with no adjustment in-between. It is behaving completely different from the 030.

I am sort of tempted to disconnect the illumination module from the stalk and wire it to full brightness (since I never adjust it for that anyways), and have just the cluster connected to the stalk for adjustability.

[rkrenicki]

After looking at every wiring diagram I can find for the 2000 to 2003 model years.. I have determined that all of USDM cars have the same pinouts regardless of engine type. That is good news for my adapter, as the backside would be the same regardless of model.

I now need to determine how many different pinouts for BFMs exist to see how many combinations would be needed. It has already been determined that the 020 and 030 are identical and that the 050 and 090 are nearly identical to each other. I will see what I can do about getting pinouts for the other types and go from there.

[Yamazaki]

I'll try to help you with that once I get back. I'm at the airport now and am not looking forward to the LONG flight back...

[rkrenicki]

I'll try to help you with that once I get back. I'm at the airport now and am not looking forward to the LONG flight back...

Have a good flight back!

[02_Legacy]

I'm glad to see a bump to this thread and speak about a board for the H4 Legacy because I just won a 020 BFM on Yahoo Japan for 3000 Yen. I probably won't get it for a while though because now that I know how Yahoo Japan auctions work I'm going to get a few things lol.

[rkrenicki]

I would have cut you a deal on the 030 that I have and I would have included the harness that I made up first! Oh well, in the end, we will get it working for you!

[02_Legacy]

I searched a long time for the 020 and I would not have used anything else, having the Auto numbers between the tach and speedo would have annoyed me immensely even if they were not lit up and the 020 has the closest redline to my actual redline.