BFM in Gen 2 Project - Completed!

[Barbbachello]

Im doing some research into whether this can actually be done. The first big issue ive come across is that BE/BH have a 3 wire VSS for the speedo that feeds into the ECU and to the cluster whereas the BD/BG have only a 2 wire VSS that just goes into the speedo. My logic would think that we could simply swap in a VSS from a gen 3 and that it would work seeing as the gen 2 ecu doesnt read the speed from that sensor or have I lost my ability to read wiring diagrams lol

Also my car is a manual

[chuckthefuk]

Yes gen 2 uses 2 wire VSS.. Gen 3 uses 3 wire VSS.

Yes gen 2 sends directly to the cluster however there is a 3rd output (from the cluster) which goes to the ECU which is the GB pin 18 / 83.

This is why when the speedo is disconnected the ECU detects lack of signal and triggers the rev limiter to kick in around 3~4K rpm.


3 Wire VSS =




If you go the 3 wire VSS route you will still have to send the signal to the speedo and ecu.

-Chuck

[rkrenicki]

I was looking into this at one point. The BFM is only looking for the pulse output, it does not care about the power and/or ground from the VSS. What I have seen done in the past is people remove the Speedometer control board from the 2nd gen cluster which handles the communication back to the ECU, and splice the single output wire to the input on the BFM.

Basically this means that in addition to the BFM, you will need the controller board out of the original Gen2 stashed up behind the BFM somewhere.

I do not have the details as to what wire is what, and I cannot seem to find the pages where I found this before, but if I dig them up I will post them here.

[Barbbachello]

Yeah I discovered the wire from the speedo to the ECU after i made the post. So technically it should be possible, assuming my gearbox works with a 3 wire VSS

I think my first step will be to see if a gen 3 cluster in general will even fit the dash of a gen 2.

[rkrenicki]

I think my first step will be to see if a gen 3 cluster in general will even fit the dash of a gen 2.

It has been done. I do not know the details as to how, but I have absolutely seen it done before.

[Barbbachello]

I know chief has done it. Didnt give much info on how unfortunately.

[chuckthefuk]

All 5MT/6MT use the same thread type and allow any VSS to be installed. I did this with various Legacy/Impreza generations.

Chief drives a Gen 3 not a Gen 2 unless I am confused.

---
RE: rkrenicki

Is it not possible to send the pulse signal to the BE/BH BFM rather then having the BD/K/G speedo handle it? I would like to assume that the pulse sent which is still just a square wave would be universal would it not?

-Chuck

[rkrenicki]

I am going from memory here from what I remember of my BG's cluster last time I had it out (years ago) and what I remember reading on some random japanese website several months ago.

The 2nd gen cluster has its own wire for the speedometer. It connects to a board right on the back of the speedometer section of the cluster. you need to keep using that board for the proper connections back to the ECU, but it is really just there as an adapter. It has one pin somewhere that has what the speedometer servo actually uses to show speed. That pin is what gets connected to the VSS input on the BFM.

Chief *used* to have a 2nd gen with a BFM in it. He got rid of it a while ago. He said it was plug and play tho.. so it might have been some cross-generation model in Russia.

[Barbbachello]

So heres what i can gather

Speed wire from BE/BH VSS comes into the BFM. Splice in a wire that connects to the speedo board of a BD/BG which then sends the signal to the ECU. Seems simple, in theory

Ive had a look at a bunch of gen 2 and 3 clusters and the pins are different. Im thinking he meant didnt have to run any new wires. My other theory is that his car was a JDM import and they are crazy similar. So far my car has been pretty close to JDM specs so fingers crossed

[eekay]

Subscribed.

[Barbbachello]

Tiny update. I found this diagram while perusing the forum. I think its the speedo board to ecu idea. Can anyone read Japanese lol

[rkrenicki]

Yep, thats the diagram that I had found before when I was looking into it (The random japanese website that I referred to in my last post). That board is found on the 2nd gen cluster.

That picture gives enough information to do it, I would think. From what I gather, you run three wires to the points on the board as shown. The colors of the wires in the picture line up with the colors on the diagram. That bottom left wire (green) connects to the VSS wire on the BFM, and C10 on the ECU.

[Grimmrican]

(??? ) way to get me all dizzy guys. I literally just lost about 13% of brain cells ill never get back (¬_¬)

[rkrenicki]

I never noticed before, but that diagram is on hansvonaxion's photobucket.

[Dead91silvia]

Dont temp me with another mod...

I do know that someone did a 3rd gen cluster in a 2nd gen, just cant remember the name. Guy was in Russia though.

[rkrenicki]

It was Chief, but he said it was plug and play.

I am thinking that it must have been an EDM/Russian transitional model halfway between 2nd and 3rd gen, because the cluster harnesses are nowhere near the same on USDM ones.

[Barbbachello]

Maybe we should all move to Russia

[chuckthefuk]

and get dash cams :-D

[Grimmrican]

In soviet Russia, Russia moves to u lol.

[Barbbachello]

I have money and time again so this is back on the table :smt082

Went and got a gen 3 cluster to fiddle with today. Found out with some "encouragement" and some "massaging" of some of the plastics it can be made to fit. As to how it will be secured and where the speedo board will go im not sure yet

[Muse]

Subscribed. This should help me if/when I get a Tommi Kaira digital speedometer cluster.

[rkrenicki]

Is the front plastic not installed for that picture? The front plastic is most of what makes a BFM.. a BFM.. Since the plastic angles the opposite direction on the 2nd gen from the 3rd gen.. that is what I would think is the tricky part.

[pleaidestar]

Seconds gene aren't supposed to have the black faced cluster? I must have a bastard child second gen, my guages look exactly like that one in the pic without the 4eat gear lights in the middle...whats the hot draw with this bfm, I don't really get it.

[Barbbachello]

Is the front plastic not installed for that picture? The front plastic is most of what makes a BFM.. a BFM.. Since the plastic angles the opposite direction on the 2nd gen from the 3rd gen.. that is what I would think is the tricky part.

Nah it isnt. I couldn't get the actual cluster in there without taking it off or my steering wheel off and it took me so long to get my steering wheel on straight I couldnt be assed for just a test if the cluster its self will fit lol. When i actually get my hands on a bfm ill make it fit. Will need to trim some of the shroud though

[pleaidestar]

Maybe I just don't understand the mod

[Barbbachello]

Maybe I just don't understand the mod

Maybe you have the GT/Outback grey with red needles? This is about putting the blacked out cluster from a JDM B4/GTB/etc in a gen 2

[Muse]

Go look at grimmrican's thread He just put one in his BE. The BFMs have tinted plastic covers red halos around the gauges and light up all pretty and stuff and you can't see the gauges unless the car is on. There might be more.
Barbachello doesn't have a BFM in yet.

[pleaidestar]

Oh alright, gotcha..thanks does sound nice n fancy. The second 2gen cluster is pretty drab and boring

[Barbbachello]

Oh alright, gotcha..thanks does sound nice n fancy. The second 2gen cluster is pretty drab and boring

Exactly

[Grimmrican]

Here's a 3rd gen bfm in my car

Side by side



All lit up