Koni Yellows vs. Fortune Auto coilovers

[Michelle]

Hey, guys!

This is my first post here but I've lurked for quite a bit. I have a question about a decision I'm trying to make in regard to my suspension and I'm seeking some opinionated responses. That's opening up a can of worms on the internet, but I'm prepared for it.

I have a 1999 Subaru Legacy postal wagon I recently purchased from a member in Spokane. The suspension is shot in every single way, naturally, because of the sordid history of a rural mail delivery vehicle. I am a big fan of Koni Yellows (Sports) and I've been focused on getting those for a while now. I planned to pair them with H&R Sport springs as well. If this were where suspension modifications ended, then that would be fine. However, I eventually plan to have 5x114.3mm knuckles on this car as the wheels I want for this car only come in that lug pattern. I understand that this means I will need all of the components from an '05 and up STi, but I'm fine with that.

So, what I'm reading is that the Koni Yellow inserts won't fit as easily into the struts that come with 5x114.3 STis. This would mean I have to buy new shocks at this point. Koni Yellows are not prohibitively expensive, but I don't want to spend that kind of money more than once. Especially given my limited shock options at 5x114.3. So, what I've been considering is to splurge for Fortune Auto coilovers. I have an Accord friend who both drags and autocrosses his car and he swears by them. Granted, his pool of knowledge does not extend far beyond these, it's the only first-hand review I've had of them. They are supposed to be wonderful according to online reviews as well. The benefit I see with something like this is that I can speak directly with the manufacturer about rebuilds and replacement parts. Specifically, I can get strut bases to fit a 5x114.3 knuckle and just thread the old one off and thread it on.

I will admit, I don't need the adjustability, but it also starts to make sense from a price standpoint, too. For $1,200 I can get a full set of coilovers. For the Konis I still need upper shock mounts/camber plates, bellows, bump stops and the springs themselves. If I opt for camber plates over rubber shock mounts, I've surpassed coilover prices.

Given that line of thinking, with the restriction that I need to buy suspension VERY soon in order for the vehicle to be safe on the road, what would you choose?

Thanks for reading if you made it this far!

[rkrenicki]

I <3 first posts like this. Well thought out, and with enough information to make some recommendations. I only wish I had more experience in this area to give you a valid opinion on your question.

There are a number of suspension gurus in here, and I am sure someone will pop in soon with some helpful information for you.

[foohfooh]

I know your question is about x setup vs y setup however, im sure the suspension gurus are gonna ask about the direction of the build. That will help them narrow down the answer to your question. (Besides the rad future wheels/beefy hubs of course )

[KNaph]

I'm not overly educated in suspension and all that but I lowered my car on BC racing coilovers and I really like them. I definitely like that you can adjust coils to the exact ride height you need and adjust the damping if you need to. There's also the benefit like you mentioned about being able to swap out the lower brackets for ones that are compatible with the STI hubs. That's what I kept in mind when I bought my BCs but it's not likely that I'll do the conversion.

[bijon440]

I could rave all day in favour of the konis since thats what I run and I'm madly in love with them, but since it seems you plan to switch to 5x114 hubs, I would save that money and go with either something that can be adapted to both size hubs (like the coilovers you mentioned, or just do the knuckle swap first if the budget allows. But at the end of the day, for price and great daily performance...koni. kept mine paired with stock 07 wrx springs. Very comfy. Good luck!

[Michelle]

Thanks for all of the replies. KNaph, I looked at your members' ride thread and saw the Photoshopped image you did of the Regamasters. Do want. Those are some of my boyfriend's favorite wheels apart from his Kosei K1s.

The intended purpose of this car is likely what everyone on here sets out to achieve. A daily driven car with components that allow it to be pushed when desired. If that happens to be at the autocross course in the Piggly Wiggly parking lot or entrance ramps jolts on the interstate at 4:00 in the morning, you want to know that the suspension can handle some spirited driving with a decent amount of reliability.

A strong selling point for coilovers is that everything is included in one assembly. On a car like this where I expect to have to replace everything, struts and springs are not everything in the equation. If you budget that way, you're going to be very disappointed when going to put them on the car.

Anyone with opinions, even if they differ from my current options, please chime in!

[dodik]

In my personal opinion pretty much any sub 2500 coilover system is not going to be designed for real DD, yes people swear by BC, Megan, D2, Ksport, Tein etc they are not designed the same way Koni, Ohlins, Prova, STI and other higher end companies do. 99% of the time they will throw a 8k/6k springs and make shocks hard enough for fillings to come loose in your teeth as you drive over anything thats not perfect flat road surface. The only reason to run them is for clearance, and height adjustment. Because they will be harsh prepare to replace every rubber parts associated with suspension on your car as they will, if not already, fail.
In my opinion if you really want coilovers get a very good brand used set that can be rebuilt by someone local. Sometimes local shops can make wonders to otherwise thrashed coilover system from re-valving to simply swapping proper springs.

Now since you do want to swap hubs and my guess is you don't have the money now, buy a set of used struts to roll for time being a working set can be bought on one of many subaru forums for 50-200 bucks for all four corners assembled with springs and all the hardware you need.
Once you swap the hubs decide what you want to do.
I never had Koni's but from other people and their reputation they will most likely handle better than cheap coilovers.

[KNaph]

I'm gonna continue to be biased lol, but I guess it really depends on the aesthetic of the car too, I don't know how low Konis + lowering springs will take you, or even how low you want your car. If it's just a daily and you don't need it to be that low then struts + springs all the way.

As you probably know coils are gonna be a pain in the ass though, literally and figuratively. My experience with BC has been really good and I'd highly recommend BCs but the price difference is marginal, performance probably isn't significantly different either, and I generally prefer the look of BCs, and I got a very solid deal from Import Image Racing too. With that said the ride is decent, I got 8k front 6k rear spring rates, and I think I should've gotten Swift springs, would make for a slightly less harsh ride over bumpy roads and probably closer to advertised spring rates. The ride isn't super bad but it can get pretty rough if the road sucks. I could lower the damping a little more and get a more comfortable ride but I have it currently set to where I get the performance I want and the ride that I can live with.

They handle pretty well the way I have them set up, even with my balloon tires giving me body roll, but once I get new wheels and lower profile tires the ride is probably gonna get significantly more harsh. The handling difference was obviously night and day against the stock struts. Just giving you my 2 cents about my relatively short experience with coilovers.

I agree with dodik's idea of just getting some "inbetween" suspension, it can also help you figure out which direction you want to go with suspension. Maybe struts and springs won't give you the right look, or maybe you really like a smoother ride and coilovers will just make you uncomfortable while driving. Or maybe you won't even want to do the conversion later on.

Also yeah, I love Regamasters too!

P.S. my mom actually prefers the ride with coilovers vs when I had stock suspension lol, and she also likes that they make me drive slower, except in the corners, then I haul ass! So in my case the BC coils got the mom seal of approval!

[lord flashheart]

Dont listen to these crazies! I only have 80k miles on my blown forester struts, stock springs, 175/75R14 and it can out handle a porsche. Guaranteed.

[nepbug]

Where are you located? Places that salt the road in the winter are no fun for coil-overs. If they don't salt though, it is nice to be able to raise it up a little for the winter.

I'd lean more towards the Konis unless you are going to have tire clearance issues. You should get more miles out of the Konis before you need to rebuild. Konis have been around forever and they aren't going anywhere.

Best option IMO is to buy a used set for now and upgrade to the konis when you do the knuckle swap like somebody else already suggested.

[Michelle]

In my personal opinion pretty much any sub 2500 coilover system is not going to be designed for real DD, yes people swear by BC, Megan, D2, Ksport, Tein etc they are not designed the same way Koni, Ohlins, Prova, STI and other higher end companies do.

I respect this opinion, however I feel that it's a little off as well. A $2500 coilover setup doesn't suddenly give me better on-road performance. It will blow the doors off of most things on the track, offer me the benefits of a remote reservoir and last for years on a purpose-built machine. Your version of these manufacturers' methodology is on point, though. Tein used to be a great brand, but their manufacturing has since moved to China and can be thrown in with the lot of the other mentioned brands. I don't think Fortune Auto is like that, though. I urge you to check them out. I've heard nothing but great things about them from people who actually push them on the track. The other brands cannot have the same said for them with the exception of Tein.

I'm gonna continue to be biased lol, but I guess it really depends on the aesthetic of the car too, I don't know how low Konis + lowering springs will take you, or even how low you want your car. If it's just a daily and you don't need it to be that low then struts + springs all the way.

I 100% respect your decision to purchase what you have as there are a lot of good reviews out there for BC coilovers. My only hang up is that they're made in Taiwan which leads me to believe that they're no better than some of the other stuff that's sold these days that's obvious crap. I don't have anything to base that on, but it doesn't give me a great feeling either. Hopefully I'm completely wrong about them.

I agree with dodik's idea of just getting some "inbetween" suspension, it can also help you figure out which direction you want to go with suspension. Maybe struts and springs won't give you the right look, or maybe you really like a smoother ride and coilovers will just make you uncomfortable while driving. Or maybe you won't even want to do the conversion later on.

The thought of buying used suspension doesn't give me warm, fuzzy feelings. Also, looks are not a priority with the direction I choose. If it was fact that the ideal combination for my setup was one that would also raise my suspension by an inch, I'd do it. I'd bitch about it, but I'd do it. My suspension knowledge is somewhat limited (my car knowledge is, too) but my boyfriend that's teaching me most of this stuff has multiple cars with multiple types of setups. He has a CB7 with recently-rebuilt Tein Super Streets and a 3.2CL-S with Koni Yellows and H&R Race springs. My inclination for the Konis was because of that car. But, when you're pressing down on shocks and springs with that much weight, even a brick becomes squishy.

Dont listen to these crazies! I only have 80k miles on my blown forester struts, stock springs, 175/75R14 and it can out handle a porsche. Guaranteed.

Thanks for the input.

Where are you located? Places that salt the road in the winter are no fun for coil-overs. If they don't salt though, it is nice to be able to raise it up a little for the winter.

I'd lean more towards the Konis unless you are going to have tire clearance issues. You should get more miles out of the Konis before you need to rebuild. Konis have been around forever and they aren't going anywhere.

Best option IMO is to buy a used set for now and upgrade to the konis when you do the knuckle swap like somebody else already suggested.

I live in Texas. We don't know what snow is. Do you have any pictures, perhaps? The problem with the Konis on the 5x114.3 setup is that they're not directly compatible. There are workarounds, from what I've read, but they're not directly compatible.



In other news, I contacted Fortune Auto today and they sell the front shock bases for those looking to swap to 5x114.3 hubs for $100/pair. That's a pretty good price!

And for those who think the Koni decision should be obvious, this car's suspension is beat. Everything needs to be replaced. Upgrading to shocks and springs will mean buying all new related components as well. It's not the cheaper option, by far. Especially since I fear that the Impreza H&R Sport springs will put me at about 2" lower. This seems like it will certainly require camber changes. My experience in this regard is non-existent, however.

[KNaph]

Yeah I definitely understand, there's a lot of good stuff about BC but there's also been a lot of bad experiences by other people.

So honestly I think if you're really keen on doing a 5x114.3 conversion then I would get the Fortune Autos and highly recommend the Swifts. Assuming that you're 100% absolutely going to do the conversion then coilovers will save you money in the long run.
The coilover path seems like the route with least hesitation, it'll be compatible with what you're planning and will perform pretty damn well. So if you're willing to put up with the less comfortable ride then they're absolutely the right choice, not sure on how the roads are down in Texas. Like I said previously, 8k front 6k rear is a bit harsh but I can live with it, I know some other guys run 7k front 5k rear, and I'm not sure if FA offers custom spring rates but these are all a few other things to think about.

[dodik]

my comment on higher end coilovers is based on the R&D that those companies go thru before putting a product on the market, hence the price tag.
It has nothing to do with remote reservoirs, but everything to do with how your tire contact the road surface. Most people think of suspension of the little thing that keeps car from bouncing and controls the body roll. Rarely people associate it with braking distance and the amount of force applied to the tire.
Do not compare track and DD, how many miles do they drive on track per year 200-500 miles maybe a 1000. that what most people drive in a month on much less maintained pavement. 8k/6k spring rates will set of your ABS pretty often if you do drive hard. Cornering with stiff springs will put quite more force on the tires and leave you very little room for error, when it will start to slide there will be almost no time react, regaining traction will be difficult.

All that said probably mean nothing to you, I do not mean to offend but there had been many post just like this, when someone has already made up their mind and just wants a confirmation. From your post getting Fortune Auto will be your best bet since you already feel comfortable with the brand. Just make sure they are rebuildable and try to get softer springs and valving from the start if possible,

[Michelle]

That's not true at all. While it seems to make more sense to go with the coilovers, I still have my shopping cart open in another window with the Konis and H&Rs. My inclinations aren't terribly relevant for the purposes of this thread, though. I have tried to take your advice and look for used KW V2/3s, but not with much luck. The prices I have found don't make much sense given that for a little more I can get them new for $2,800.

[nepbug]

It kinda sounds like you're already pretty sold on the FA coilovers. If they do come out cheaper than a traditional setup then that is pretty great. I still believe that you will be rebuilding them more often, so I don't know where the break even point is cost-wise.

I think you'll end up being happy with the FA coilovers as long as they are murderously stiff in DD use.

Do what makes you happy. If it turns out that you hate them, you can likely sell them and not lose a ton of the money you put into the setup.

[dodik]

My advice for the car would be a set of decent struts and lowering springs, since you are going 5x114 all that will come from imprezza anyway, then with remainder get swaybars and links. You have a 99 postal its not really a power monster by any means, there are absolutely no reason to throw parts more expensive then the car, unless you planning to swap it.

But like others said do what makes YOU happy not others.

[Michelle]

The plan is to swap it with an EZ30 to get it running. Loftier goals can be considered once the wheels are back on the ground. My boyfriend pulled an '02 Impreza 5-speed at the junkyard this past weekend and now we're on the hunt for a 4.11 Outback R160 with an LSD. I know it's not the ideal car to dump money into, but it's what I wanted. The foundation of any build should always begin with brakes and suspension. Regardless of the merits of the car at this point, it fits with my goals.

I'm leaning toward the Konis at this point, and I hope to have decision at the end of the week. Either option is much better than the safety that the current suspension provides.

[Michelle]

Well, I went with the Koni struts and H&R springs. I decided that I'll cross the bridge when I get there in terms of the issues I face when swapping to 5x114.3 knuckles and hubs. This combination is a known one for me, so it feels the safest bet.

I did not purchase top hats at this time as I would prefer to get the car on the ground and settled before I purchase anything to alter alignment. I want to see exactly what's needed first.

And then I found that these exist. Bummer. They're 3 times what I paid, but include both front and rear caster/camber plates and take all of the work out of modifying the strut housings.

[Michelle]

The strut inserts and springs came in today!

[rougeben83]

This will probably help you...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1170952

[Michelle]

What am I supposed to be reading, specifically?